Adrian Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 I tried to search this section for topics about books, but unfortunatelly the forum software considers the word "books" to be too common and won't perform the search. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Marius Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/reading.htm
Curran Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 Gilbert's site remains a defacto go to site after being one of the first and most complete. However, it hasn't updated in 7 or 8 years. Since then, the translations by Markus Sesko and other works have outdated Jim's list a bit. "The Japanese toso-kinko schools" and his "Genealoigies" books. Get one of the Lulu.com -30% coupons at some point. Also: "Tsuba, An Aesthetic Study", by Kazutaro Torigoye and Robert Haynes, from the "Tsuba Geijutsu-Ko" of Kazutaro Torigoye, 300 pages. at http://ncjsc.org/ncjsc_publications.htm For $100 to $150 bucks.... best start.
rkg Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 You might also pick up a copy of Markus Sesko's Handbook of Sword Fittings and Related terms - I find it really handy for looking up terms, etc. Best, rkg (Richard George)
Adrian Posted February 9, 2013 Author Report Posted February 9, 2013 Thank you guys, that's a serious list there. What would you recommend as a starting point? The goal being to get the bigger picture, so to speak: getting familiarised with the different styles, schools and periods not only for tsuba but also for fuchi, kashira, menuki and so on.
Marius Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 Tsuba an Aesthetic Study by Torigoye/ Haynes, Tosogu no Kigen by Sasano. Most Kokusai Tosogu Kai catalogues are packed with knowledge, too. And the pics are excellent.
Henry Wilson Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 This book has a very readable intro to tosogu in my opinion. http://www.lulu.com/shop/richard-george ... 48110.html
Marius Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 Yes, I have forgotten this KTK supplement.
Adrian Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Thank you guys. So, from what I gather, there isn't any entry-level book that would help the beginner to get the general idea? What I was hoping to find was something that, for every era, would list the major schools and styles, with ilustrations.
Marius Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 What I was hoping to find was something that, for every era, would list the major schools and styles, with ilustrations. Again: Tsuba an Aesthetic Study by Torigoye/ Haynes, PLUS Nihonto Koza Vol VI trans;ated by Harry Afu Watson. Neither of these two has great illustrations, but they are good primers. After that you might want to read Sasano's Tosogu no Kigen (transl. by Markus Sesko) You have already read this, I presume? http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm
Adrian Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Thank you Mariusz. Yes, I know the site and read most of it. Also I just located "Japanese sword-mounts in the collections of Field Museum" by Helen Gunsaulus which can be found as a pdf in the download section of this forum. Even if probably dated it seems to have the approach I was looking for. I have a question: what is the price of the Kokusai Tosogu Kai catalogues? (when sold by the group/publishing house I mean). I'm trying to figure out what would be fair to pay for them.
Ron STL Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 This talk makes me reminisce about what books have guided my interest in tosogu. I've always enjoyed menuki and that has always been a difficult area of study with little info available. I have always found Dr. Torigoye's books -- Kanshokei and Toso Soran -- especially useful. Visual study for the most part, with limited English. Then Sasano came out with his Sukashi Tsuba and his later updated edition (published after his death). Specific to sukashi tsuba, the photos and English text are good. Of great help are the catalogues produced by Robert Haynes. Average photo quality but ah, those wonderful works in English in Bob's words! Today, with the internet and publications, often in English, found today make study a bit easier that back in the 1960s and 1970s. I am particularly proud of being a KTK member and part of those who produce the excellent annual KTK publications. Each publication shows "the best" tosogu selected by KTK members for each edition of our catalogue. The photography is as good as it gets (thanks Richard!). Unfortunately, the last few years publication has been limited, but some copies are still available from members. (We purchase x-number of copies to support the printing of each publications.) Nihonto Koza sword fittings volume is well illustrated and translated into English. Frankly, we all find a lot of our study accomplished by well illustrated books and then, of key importance, seeing and handling actual examples at sword shows. One quickly discovers who has excellent quality tosogu laid out for study! Sadly, not many show attendees take advantage of these opportunities. Everyone gets fired up by the rush of the show. That said, a reminder to go visit the table of those willing to share! (Thanks Curran, Mike, etc.) Ron STL
christianmalterre Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 (some very diplomatic answers here.... ) mine remaining cent would be following: "If" seriously interested...?....then just right starting seriously immediately! Do buy Tsuba Kanshoki and Toso Soran -and you will be happy with. (Motto:If you want to buy you good stuff-you equally have to pay for serious info about) Christian
Adrian Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Christian, if you define "seriously interested" by "being ready to unload now 2000$ on books that may or may not be useful at this level of knowledge" the yes, probably I'm not "seriously interested". However, since I'm definitelly not interested with impressing anyone with my spending abilities, I would rather explore my options before parting with my money. I somehow doubt this is going to make me look "not seriously interested" in the eyes of the real collector. This talk makes me reminisce about what books have guided my interest in tosogu. I've always enjoyed menuki and that has always been a difficult area of study with little info available. I have always found Dr. Torigoye's books -- Kanshokei and Toso Soran -- especially useful. Visual study for the most part, with limited English. Then Sasano came out with his Sukashi Tsuba and his later updated edition (published after his death). Specific to sukashi tsuba, the photos and English text are good. Of great help are the catalogues produced by Robert Haynes. Average photo quality but ah, those wonderful works in English in Bob's words! Today, with the internet and publications, often in English, found today make study a bit easier that back in the 1960s and 1970s. I am particularly proud of being a KTK member and part of those who produce the excellent annual KTK publications. Each publication shows "the best" tosogu selected by KTK members for each edition of our catalogue. The photography is as good as it gets (thanks Richard!). Unfortunately, the last few years publication has been limited, but some copies are still available from members. (We purchase x-number of copies to support the printing of each publications.) Nihonto Koza sword fittings volume is well illustrated and translated into English. Frankly, we all find a lot of our study accomplished by well illustrated books and then, of key importance, seeing and handling actual examples at sword shows. One quickly discovers who has excellent quality tosogu laid out for study! Sadly, not many show attendees take advantage of these opportunities. Everyone gets fired up by the rush of the show. That said, a reminder to go visit the table of those willing to share! (Thanks Curran, Mike, etc.) Ron STL Thanks a lot Ron, many useful informations in your post.
Ron STL Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 I just checked and Sasano's 2nd book is availabe for $200 from Benson: http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/bo ... plies.html The available KTK catalogues can be found and purchased for under $150 pp; I'll have to see what editions are here. The copies of Benson's Bushido publication (now out of print) are well worth Bob's price, too. Too Bad the Haynes catalogues are so hard to find. Years ago Bob gave me a box of those to "give away" to anyone interested, which I did. Ron STL
Henry Wilson Posted February 11, 2013 Report Posted February 11, 2013 Plenty of books here, including Haynes catalog on page 2. http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... ings-Books
kaigunair Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 Just a quick thought from someone who was where you were a few months ago, but with a focus on the soft metals vs the iron... The general info on the history of tsuba and even of the schools can be found in the multitude of online articles. Lots of great info has been posted online if you look hard enough. The forum members here are great in helping fill in the blanks when you turn up dry. KTK and a great many of the mid-priced books has lots of eye candy and useful info on each item, as do many of the available auction cataloges, but not necessarily organized in a useful fashion. Marcus's books are best new references to get general info on schools and smiths, and understand some of interconnectedness of the schools. At least for my interests. The books that will cost you are the ones needed to determine gimie from shoshin. While nihonto books of this nature can get pretty expensive, there are more options to choose from so there are less expensive options. In tosogu, the options usually start at a higher price point that nihonto, with less translated. Starting with the haynes index, you'll want to begin buying the referenced works to see actual examples and it's the reference works which you begin to plunk down the cash. Even some of the older books, whose entire text are posted various places online, require a hardcopy for the images. Forget about the $2k figure here. I guess this is where you figure out how serious you want to get into this collecting area (i.e. if you have the sickness for it...). Where I'm at, this is where I'm spending most of my efforts are going (and my frustrations coming from). Right now I'm more of a rare/out of print book collector than a tsuba collector, and boy, is it a lot of work and $$$. Wish I had inherited a collection of books or run into a garage sale of such an estate..... -end of rambling thoughts-
Thierry BERNARD Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 and don't forget some free book for download viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2549
Adrian Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Posted February 12, 2013 I somehow lost track of this topic for the week-end. Thank you guys for all the useful info Just a quick thought from someone who was where you were a few months ago, but with a focus on the soft metals vs the iron... The general info on the history of tsuba and even of the schools can be found in the multitude of online articles. Lots of great info has been posted online if you look hard enough. The forum members here are great in helping fill in the blanks when you turn up dry. KTK and a great many of the mid-priced books has lots of eye candy and useful info on each item, as do many of the available auction cataloges, but not necessarily organized in a useful fashion. My thought exactly. Marcus's books are best new references to get general info on schools and smiths, and understand some of interconnectedness of the schools. At least for my interests. Would you mind telling me the specific titles that you have in mind? I'm not familiar with his work. Even some of the older books, whose entire text are posted various places online, require a hardcopy for the images. Forget about the $2k figure here. I guess this is where you figure out how serious you want to get into this collecting area (i.e. if you have the sickness for it...). Where I'm at, this is where I'm spending most of my efforts are going (and my frustrations coming from). Right now I'm more of a rare/out of print book collector than a tsuba collector, and boy, is it a lot of work and $$$. Wish I had inherited a collection of books or run into a garage sale of such an estate..... Who doesn't? :D and don't forget some free book for download viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2549 Bernard, thank you, but, as mentioned in a previous post, I'm already reading one of the books downloaded from that section
Adrian Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Posted February 12, 2013 Plenty of books here, including Haynes catalog on page 2. http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... ings-Books Thank you Henry. Grey has one of the nicest (as in well stocked with good titles) virtual nihonto-themed bookstores that I was able to find so far. Hopefully I'll be able to work something out with him at a certain point.
Curran Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 Marcus's books are best new references to get general info on schools and smiths, and understand some of interconnectedness of the schools. At least for my interests. ~~~ Would you mind telling me the specific titles that you have in mind? I'm not familiar with his work. I think I am channeling Reinhardt today , but at this point I think you deserve this: (1) ~How many times in one thread must we say "Markus Sesko"? (2) ~~Just type it in at Lulu.com or Amazon.com. (3) ~~~Or just search on his name here. He is a contributor. (4) ~~~~Come meet him at the Tampa show and get a signed copy. (5) ~~~~~Here is a photo of our favorite Austrian, looking quite a bit like Darcy w/ glasses: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Aj0 ... =yfp-t-701
Adrian Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Posted February 12, 2013 Well, yes, if you want to be rude and not helpful I guess you can do that. Alternativelly you could read my message and notice that I asked for more specific recommandation from his work, since he was mentioned twice about some translations, once about a book he wrote and once (spelled Marcus) more generally, about "his books". Now, in reply to my very specific question: Would you mind telling me the specific titles that you have in mind? I'm not familiar with his work. you could have "chanelled Reinhardt" as you did OR give me a title, a link to one of his contributions here and so on. P.S. I just checked and the cheapest airline ticket that I could get for Tampa (in May, not tomorrow) costs a mere 1085$ . Thank you for your useful post.
Curran Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Page 1. Keep your toupee on and admit you didn't read. (1) Do that and acknowledge the initial rudeness that you did to us who owe you absolutely nothing, and I'll call it settled with newbie. Fundamentally I care enough for the hobby that I come back again and again answering the same newbie questions again and again, with a decade in here on NMB from its early formats through the current version Brian shepherds so well. Hopefully each newbie we help it is someone serious and with potential like Junichi. Often it is not. (2) Or you can go thermonuclear tempest in a teacup flamewar, which I won't engage.
Adrian Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Posted February 13, 2013 I think this topic may be useful in the future to other beginners and poluting it with this kind of petty "debate" would be completelly wrong. I believe my previous message is crystal clear and honestly there's nothing more to add. You may want to re-read it. Thank you.
sanjuro Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Adrian. You may find that your rather peremptory demands for the exact information you want, coupled with your somewhat boorish dismissal of information given to you on the grounds that it is not in the format you desire or not in the order in which you would like it presented, is beginning to wear a little on those who are trying to help you. Just an observation which I think is of use to those newbies who might follow you. Thus might this slight deviation in topic be an object lesson.
Ford Hallam Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Hmm and there was me somewhat miffed at the suggestion my work is somehow lacking in "spiritual quality' because I use electric lights.
kaigunair Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 I see how I didn't specify which of his books I was talking about, so to finish my contribution: http://www.amazon.com/Genealogies-Japan ... 3842359543 http://www.lulu.com/shop/markus-sesko/t ... 23849.html From one newbie to another, the sempai's here are a great bunch, who freely share their time and knowledge. You and I need to acknowledge that we are the ones who are taking more than we contribute at this point in time. Final warning: Don't get off on the wrong foot.
Adrian Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Posted February 13, 2013 Hmm and there was me somewhat miffed at the suggestion my work is somehow lacking in "spiritual quality' because I use electric lights. Ford, I remember someone saying something like this but I'm damn sure it wasn't me :lol: (or Keith, for that matter) Adrian.You may find that your rather peremptory demands for the exact information you want, coupled with your somewhat boorish dismissal of information given to you on the grounds that it is not in the format you desire or not in the order in which you would like it presented, is beginning to wear a little on those who are trying to help you. Just an observation which I think is of use to those newbies who might follow you. Thus might this slight deviation in topic be an object lesson. Since this little conversation took place viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15011&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 (find the big post with the coin photos), Keith seems to be really focused in following me aropund the boards and posting negative replies at the first chance :lol: This is the case here too since I really doubt that I made "peremptory demands", I showed "boorish dismissal" and so on. The only thing that I showed was a preference for precision .
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