Tanto kodogu value & attribution

[Marius]

Dear All,

 

a friend of mine (a pre-Internet person) has a tanto koshirae from an old, 19th c. collection. He wants to sell it and I want to help him to establish a potential value - a "price range" would be wlecome. He has been offered a price for this ensemble that I have found a rip-off, so I wanted to consult the board members in order to establish what these items could fetch in the open market.

 

My friend may want to follow my advise and offer this for sale on the NMB, so please treat this post as an introduction to a sale. I will suggest my friend seller to make a donation to the board if he sells through it.

 

The koshirae has everything in terms of kodogu except for menuki:

 

tsuba (plus high quality, gilded seppa) - 5 x 3.5 x 0.5 cm

fuchigashira

kojiri

kurikata

 

All these parts are a set by the same maker and they are made of silver.

 

A kozuka is present, too, nananko shakudo with broomm and sakura blossom, signed.

 

 

The koshirae had been stripped of menuki, which were converted into earrings around 1900. They are missing since. The tsuka is missing too, but the saya is still around, done in lacquer with a motif of ample leaves done in red and black lacquer. Shown in photos, but it is very difficult to phoptograph lacquer objects. Saya is 33.5 cm long ad has a sori of 1 cm.

 

Could you please indicate what you would deem an appropriate value? I am not asking you for offers, as once these items are for sale, they will have a price tag and will be posted in the sale section.

 

Thank you for your kind help.

 

I hope the admins will not think this post an abuse, as the intention to sell is stated clearly from the outset. Any kind of help - attributions based on workmanship, translation of the signatures on tsuba/fuchi and kozuka will be highly appreciated.

 

Shoul you wish to see the photographs in high resolution, send me a PM with your email address please.

[Marius]

and here goes the kurikata and the kozuka.

[Chishiki]

Kodzuka I think reads 'Yanagawa Naomasa" + kao. Not the same maker as the other fittings. Mark

[Brian]

Yep..the kozuka was chosen as somewhat of a match..but it isn't. Nice work though. If it were me, I would sell the kozuka separately from the rest. It should fetch $400 or so on it's own? Just a wild guess. The signatures appear to be the same, or not?

Rest of the koshirae...no real idea. I would guess at $1000 maybe?

 

Brian

[Soshin]

Hi Mariusz K.,

 

The value of the kodogu would greatly depend on the authenticity of the signatures of these type of antique fittings. I personally don't have the resources to confirm the authenticity of the signatures some of which I can't even read as they are written in gyosho style of script. This was a common practice of the late Edo Period and early Meiji Period. Overall all of the kodogu look of high quality Kinko work from the late Edo Period to early Meiji Period. They were likely made for a wakazashi or tanto used by a wealthy merchant.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Brian Ayres]

I apologize as I personally have no idea of value myself, so I have nothing constructive to add.... :D but.... I really like this set. I'm wishing it came along a few months from now when I could add it to my collection.

 

 

Brian Ayres

[cabowen]

The tsuba was made to order, possibly for a women. Rare to see such an inscription.

 

I would think this was made circa Bakumatsu. It is, in my opinion, very nice, and worth much more than $1000.

 

No blade?

[Marius]

Gentlemen,

 

thank you for your valuable input

 

Yes, there is a blade for this koshirae, a rather hefty tanto in old polish. I don't have photographs now, will be able to take some next week, hopefully.

[Jean]

Very nice but there is no Tsuka, otherwise it would have been worth several K$ taking into account the saya lacquer.

 

As there is no menuki, it could be mounted with a silver mekugi screw system

[Marius]

there is a tsuka, no wrapping though (as said, menuki have been stripped).

[Jean]

A picture of the tsuka will be needed Mariusz as it can be of great added-value to the koshirae and modify the estimated price. Menuki can be manufactured by Ford for example.

[Marius]

Jean, I will provide pics of the tsuka next week. And also of the blade that this koshirae is housing.

 

The owner will refrain from a sale until he has an (educated) opinion on the mei of the kozuka. If the kozuka proves authentic and not gimei, it will be sold separately. I know that chances are slim, given the name, but maybe he is lucky :-)

 

Please forgive me my indolence - I am ignorant in Edo kodogu, I have never studied them and my knowledge is non-existent. I have to rely on the kind help of the NMB members concerning the mei on the kozuka. I don't even have literature that could help...

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Mariusz

 

The kozuka seems to be signed SHOZUI. The fittings in an obscure way remind me of this I once owned:

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4053&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Shozui&start=0

 

What I mean is the fuchi on mine was signed SHOZUI, and while the work was very good it was not exceptional which is what such a name would demand. I suspect your kozuka is similar in that it is a high end copy. Maybe not meant to deceive, but to reproduce and emulate.

 

The engraving of the Sakura looks well done but (sorry to say) not very imaginative and slightly boring. The fittings look solid silver (is the koshirae heavy?) and all in all I would say Bakumatsu period.

[John A Stuart]

I've been trying to solve the siversmiths signature and my best guess is 億帝 直洋子X舟 I have tried to use other kanji, but, whichever find no reference for regular tousogu artists, so, maybe a silversmith was given a special request. John

[Pete Klein]

Kozuka is signed Yanagawa Naomasa. Mei is close to those in Kinko Meikan (the kao is off a bit). Probably worth shinsa.

[Jean]

Now, is it standard measurement kozuka, or kozuka for tanto saya? these one are smaller and very difficult to find. If it is the case, to separate it from the koshirae will diminuish its price. I have got friends which are still waiting to find one.....

[Marius]

@Pete

Shinsa is not an option, my friend is not in the position to bear the costs. He is not the youngest and he is disabled. I try to help, taking advantage of the NMB members generosity

 

 

@Henry

Yes, it is heavy and looks like solid silver, but I must have a closer look to be sure. The tsuba looks massive silver, that's for sure.

 

 

Seems like there is initial consensus that the kozuka is gimei? I told my firend not to sell until I get the opinion of experts, because I thought the quality of that kozuka to be good enough to ask you what you think of the mei.

 

I also want to encourage my friend not to split the set - tanto and koshirae, but I am afraid that selling blade and mounts separately would bring him more money...

[Jean]

Mariusz,

 

It will depend on the Tanto quality. If mumei, the price will be made by the koshirae

[Marius]

Jean, it is a standard kozuka. And the blade is mumei, looks late Koto/early shinto, out of polish. I don't think it is worth a lot. But, as said, I need to take a few pictures first. I will publish them next week. I agree, the koshirae will make the price.

[John A Stuart]

I have a papered solid silver outfitted en suite wakizashi with kozuka and washibari although handachi koshirae having a mumei papered Jumyo blade that is worth aprox. $6000 10 years ago. I could not track who the tousogushi was either. This may be within that range. John

[Jean]

John,

 

Did you get it as it is now or did you have to do some restoration?

 

Here, menuki don't exist, kozuka is not matching and it is a tanto not a wakizashi.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Jean, Price was as bought. I did have the blade polished and J. Terado did some minor nuri work. I often see tanto and wakizashi by similar level smiths being close to the same value when of equivalent condition. John

[Jean]

I'll be less generous John, taking into account to have solid silver menuki manufactured and the handled rewrapped (depending of its condition). I'll say around 4000$ :D

[Marius]

Jean, John,

 

does that have any implications for the value of my friend's koshirae?

 

I know, it is hard to judge without the tanto, but for the koshirae alone?

[John A Stuart]

Yes, just perpsective of the possible value of silver fittings of fair quality on a good koshirae with a mumei blade. It really needs evaluating closely. John

[Jean]

Mariusz,

 

We are talking about the Koshirae value, at this level, the blade value is peanuts. To have the menuki made in solid silver by a very good craftsman would cost not far from 1500$.

[Marius]

Jean,

 

you have raised an interesting and often overlooked point - how much it would cost to have a good tsuba/menuki/fuchigashira made by a specialist artisan today. I am afraid these is a consideration which has virtually no impact on todays prices. I have pre-Edo tsuba purchased for a few hunderd US$ that would cost $.$$$s to replicate today. Still, the market is somehow blind to the fact

[Shimazu]

I am certainly not an expert, but I would not be too quick to call the mei on the kozuka gimei. The work is good, and there are mei and kaō in Wakayama's 3 volume set that are very close to this one. I would also want to know the signature on the rest of the fittings, unfortunately, I haven’t been able to figure them out yet.

[Jean]

Jack et All,

 

Tosogu for mei ==> shinsa, otherwise, it is considered mumei

[John A Stuart]

Jack, a previous post by me delved into the fittings signature. Have a look; there may be errors, but, may lead in a direction. John