lotus Posted January 6, 2013 Report Posted January 6, 2013 I did some research on the attached Tsuba and have a tentative attribution and my reasons behind it. However, I wanted to ask you guys what you thought for an attribution. The executed motif differs from what you typically see. Here are the details provided to me about this piece : Mei (signature) : Mumei (Unsigned) Length : 8.12 cm x 7.95 cm (3.19 inches x 3.12 inches) Thickness of rim: 0.39 cm (0.15 inches) Jidai(era) : Edo period. Special feature: On the Henkei iron Migaki tsuba, Matsu (pine tree) no zu is engraved with openwork. Jitetsu color is blackish. Thanks! Quote
Curran Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Still waiting for someone else to reply before I do. Quote
lotus Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Posted January 7, 2013 Yeah, I have a hunch you know the answer! Quote
MauroP Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 I would suggest Akasaka style, but the shape of nakago-ana (and some other gestalt considerations) makes me suspicious about a genuine sukashi work. Bye, Mauro Quote
Soshin Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Hi Everyone, Here is my attribution for the tsuba. Something with the chisel marks and the surface doesn't look right to me which makes me think reproduction. I think the tsuba is trying to be a Ko-dai Higo tsuba circa late Edo Period. Would like to examine this tsuba in hand before drawing any final conclusions and would not purchase it based upon the photos provided over the Internet. Just my two cents on the topic. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
Brian Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 No idea. I don't think a repro...but it has suffered over time and the ana are awkwardly shaped. Someone....teach me. :D Brian Quote
lotus Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Posted January 7, 2013 Mauro - At first glance, I was thinking Akasaka (or Higo) as well. However, the thinness does not fit. David - I agree the surface does not look quite right. It appears to me to have that slightly melted finish. As for the very obvious coarseness and texture, I am not sure. Could it be from hammering or more likely a corrosion of some sort over time? The slightly melted surface, thinness (.39 cm), and the older style half moon hitsu-ana are all points in favor of antiquity. However, you guys bring up a good point about the shape of the nakuga-ana. I will research that some more and I eagerly await Curran's post. Quote
christianmalterre Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Ouiiiitutsch! (Curran-you are not alone!) LOL! Looks Damm Cast for me.... Christian Quote
ROKUJURO Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 I like that TSUBA, although the surface and the TAGANE marks near the NAKAGO ANA are indeed a little strange. I don't think that it is a cast one but I believe that it once was heavily corroded. What I would like to know is what is meant by the term 'HENKEI iron'. This term was used as 'bent' or 'distorted' in another TSUBA's description. Could someone please give an explanation? Thanks in advance! Quote
John A Stuart Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 変形 can mean many things, one of which is 'suspicious-looking style'. John Quote
lotus Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Posted January 7, 2013 Saw mention using google that HENKEI means transform. So, could it be the seller is referring to the "transformed" iron finish in reference to it looking melted? Just a wild guess. I agree that it is suspicious looking. If it is a repro, I would have expected it to match the 3 pines design we see in Akasaka/Higo work. You normally see two versions of this design (one abstract and one less so) which I am attaching. The tsuba in question differs from those two designs. Maybe someone has seen a tsuba matching this design? Quote
christianmalterre Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Patrick, your´s both do match what collectors care,keep,buy,interest... so no match in mine eyes to this topic-example. (maybe stylism..but that´s all already) Melted... Yakite-shitate..common to ben seen on Ko-Kanayama,Ko-Yagyu,Ko-YKB ect... A surface finish that resembles the glaze on pottery... It is produced by putting the finnished plate back into the furnace and allowing the surface and corners to slightly melt... Some authors distinguish with the idea it equally could ben applied via use of acids... Yakite-kusarashi...comes from Yaku-"Burning"...kasarasu(to baiste,stain,pickle)...(patinate? by Nitrit)...(i am not an metallurgist-such i do not have the right wording).... (roughly speaking: an surface design or finish that is made by acid treatment) Topic Item does not show this....(mine comment and point!) Maybe we can get some more info about this "seller" and one or two pictures of the Sukashi-work and Mimi???????????? Christian Quote
Curran Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 I agree with Mr. Malteere when he says it looks cast. This is a fairly well known Higo tsuba. I'd even go so far as to say the originals are famous. From experience, I'd seen quite a number of cast and moderns in Japan. There are places inside the sukashi that look bit jagged, and the whole tsuba looks a little neotenized or stunted in its finishing. THe kogai and kozuka hitsu-ana sort of scream "wrong, wrong, wrong" at me. I wouldn't know until I held it, but I wouldn't bet on this tsuba. For what it is worth, I've always liked the design but think I've only seen one real example of the originals on display at the Chicago Show in 2004. Quote
lotus Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Posted January 7, 2013 The seller is none other than http://www.aoijapan.com (the newer site for http://www.aoi-art.com/) I thought they were reputable. Can anyone comment on this seller? I already requested pictures of the inside sukashi walls and outside of the mimi. Will post back when or if I hear back from them. Those views were suspiciously absent. Quote
Curran Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Patrick, Not sure what to say there. Tsuruta-san and his shop have been around for ages. He does good service, but high volume. Mistakes will be made. There _are_ some cast and some burned fittings on his site. Those are without papers. He is *right next* to the NBTHK. Anything he has worth owning probably should have papers. Since he doesn't really list higher end fittings, I haven't dealt with him much. In my few transactions with them, I received a set of menuki where one was a copy. Wasn't happy. The ying-yang: bought another set described as "brass" and at a brass level price. They showed up and were solid gold. Excellent work. If careful in what you can buy from him, and you will probably be happy. Quote
Soshin Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Hi Patrick R., I also agree with Curran's words of wisdom and experience. I have had good dealings with Aoi Art in the past. About seven years ago I was walking around that section of Tokyo (Yoyogi) and walked into Aoi Art thinking I was at the NBTHK sword museum. They sent me just a few doors down to the museum. I went back later and purchased a menuki set. Unfortunate they were not sold gold but antique (Mid Edo Period) and made of shibuichi. I haven't purchased anything lately from them due in part to the really bad exchange rate between US dollars and Japanese yen and the other points already noted by Curran. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
lotus Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Posted January 8, 2013 Curran - Which dealers do you consider high-end? Just out of curiosity. Might come in handy down the road if I get a large tax refund or win the lotto Thanks for all the info, I have learned lots... Quote
christianmalterre Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Maybe in your´s caliber? this is an old days collectors friend i met long ago-and i ALWAYS was VERY Satisfied with EVERYTHING i bought! Ditto you can ask questions if those are Honest and Educated. Akira Seshimo-san,Maruhidebizyutouken Note that it´s NOT the standard-stuff you do see elsewhere. http://maruhidetouken.com/ Christian Quote
lotus Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Posted January 8, 2013 Thanks Christian, I will check that site out. Do they have an english version of it? Quote
Curran Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Christian, I confess that I did not know that site. Yes, some fine things there. There is a Juyo tanto that I wish I could own. Many of his fittings are 'for reference only': Ichijosai Hirotoshi, Kunitomo Teiei, Ikkin, etc. Sort of similar to pieces I own or have owned. I really like that Hirotoshi, though the Teiei is not one of the better pieces by him. Doesn't come through in the photo why it is a desirable piece. Must say I've never seen a rabbit set of Omori fittings like that. Patrick: Your question is more difficult than you would believe. Much of the best fittings trades privately. I collect at the 'upper middleclass' level, but the high class stuff goes almost entirely privately. The upper middleclass guys are: http://ginzaseikodo.com/englishhome.html http://www.choshuya.co.jp/ http://www.tsuruginoya.com/index.html http://www.tetsuguendo.com If you ask nicely, they have provide Juyo level fittings- but really there is a burden of proof that you are serious and collecting at that level. Mike and Cyrus at tetsuguendo.com are probably the best bridge to that level for non-Japanese speakers. Also, remember there are a lot lot less Juyo fittings than Juyo swords. The supply/demand vs affordability expresses itself not so much in price as in what comes to market and when.... Like I said, your question is more difficult or complex than I can convey. Just understand there is a private marketplace above the level of the links I posted. I only have a glimpse into it, and Mike Y sometimes post something from that level~ usually not for sale, just emerged and photographed as it privately changed hands. Otherwise your best bet is the Dai Token Ichi in Japan. Quote
MauroP Posted January 10, 2013 Report Posted January 10, 2013 Just for reference, a picture of a mumei tsuba attributed to Hayashi Matashichi (Higo school) from http://www.choshuya.co.jp/tsuba/21_40/25sukashi.htm Bye, Mauro Quote
lotus Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Posted January 10, 2013 Mauro - Thanks for sharing that, what a wonderful Tsuba! Quote
Michael 101 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Higo tsuba are widely admired and therefore copied extensively not only now but also in the Edo period. The beautiful Hayashi 1st master tsuba above would have been way out of the reach of all but the most senior of the Samurai rank so copies of popular designs would be comissioned. My guess is that the tsuba from aoi art is a 19thcentury copy by the Kumagai school - this schools work varied from brilliant to awful and I would say out of politeness that this tsuba falls in the middle. Best save for a Hayashi original or as an alternative an Akasaka version. Kind regards Michael Quote
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