help with mei

[mattyd]

Dear board -

Am new to collecting and have said hello in previous post.

Have been to the Birmingham arms fair per Ian's recommendation, which was good thank you - met a long term collector there who was

incredibly helpful and kind - thank you to another Ian.

Have looked at purchasing my first sword which is currently in progress - how exciting, I assume the first time is the most exciting??

And so to my post - my father in law had an old wakizashi - and I have finally removed a metal mekugi pin - and removed the tsuka.

Underneath is a bit rusty but there looks to be something of a signature.

I have spent the last few days scouring the kanji sites to see if I can read it but I can't find anything - although

I have begun to convince myself it is everything from atsu to tame and plenty in between.

I feel a bit of a cheat asking for help but … actually if someone can point me in the direction to where I can find it that would be great …

And what should I do with the second character beneath the top one?

Thanks

Matt

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Matt,

The 1st Kanji is a very common one on swords; the 2nd I can't see clearly enough to read.

If you want to read this yourself try picking the radicals out of the character. Radicals are the blocks of strokes that the Kanji are made of. Here's a link to a radical chart:

http://jisho.org/kanji/radicals/

If you can find one or 2 radicals in a character you can then use the search function on the chart to bring up possible matches. Work at it a while and you'll find the Kanji.

You need to learn the radicals any way; this will help. Pay attention also to the stroke count of each radical; it isn't always obvious. If you can count strokes you'll have an easier time finding Kanji. Eventually you'll learn the Kanji and be able to read names.

If the rust is obscurring the 2nd character you can put a drop of oil on the rust and break it free with a piece of bone or ivory. Don't over clean; just remove the crud on top.

Grey

[J Reid]

Tametsugu? Or minamoto ?? I'm bad at reading mei. But that's my guess.

[drdata]

Based on limited flash card study I was thinking kane.

 

Could use help on Grey's advice (the source of my flash cards, btw).

 

I tried to match the radical but not sure I had luck; did not find 'kane' anyway. Is this a 10 or 11 stroke?

 

I was thinking 10, and seems to match the first radical shown in the 10 stroke section.

 

Thanks

[Jean]

Kane and perhaps Hiro

[mattyd]

Thanks for your help Grey that was very interesting but was a lot harder than I thought it would be - haha

I used that link and focused on the four dashes at the bottom as my easy radicals - but if its kane then that was a red herring as the strokes should be down strokes not four dashes ....

I did consider kane for some reason, I think because you said it was common, but ended up with ou, ryou and niru - but didn't think they were right so sneaked back here for another look !!

Thank you to those that helped me out.

On the plus side - it's amazingly addictive solving these sorts of problems!

But comparing the computer kane to the signature, well you can see how much you have to work at these to pick them out, I wouldn't have called that with any conviction in a million years...

[Peter Bleed]

it says kaneuji.

get a boe and knock that red reust off. it adds nothing.

P

[Peter Bleed]

sorry, I intended that to say "get a BONE"

[Grey Doffin]

There is often a large difference between print and writing (Kanji in a book and Kanji written (carved) in a signature). When I put my set of flashcards together I had the Kanji written by a Japanese calligrapher for exactly that reason.

With time and practice you'll recognize the radicals, regardless of how weird the writing is, and finding the character will become easier.

Grey

[mattyd]

Hi Grey

can I order a set of your flash cards please - sounds like a good way to go!

Thanks

Matt

[Grey Doffin]

PM sent.

Grey

[Curran]

Those flashcards are useful.

Bought two sets from Grey over the years.

 

Great for practice when on plane, train, or killing time.

[mattyd]

thanks for the help so far - so following the research process based on kaneuji

I will order my flash cards - and have certainly learned kane and tame - so thats 2 from 270 or however many there are...

gone to the nihonto club sword database and looked up kaneuji - of which it looks like there are about 15 smiths who signed using this kanji

but i assume they all have their own style so planned to try to match it up with a sample of their signature

 

so I was going to ask about a database of the oshigata for each smith but I assume this probably hasnt been compiled yet ...

 

in which case any pointers on where to look for samples?

 

thanks matt