Re: Identification Help Appreciated

[Kai-Gunto]

See, this is the problem. You guys act like you know what you are talking about, but you clearly don't. This blade is from 1945 Japan. That is a fact. Nothing has been done to it since. All of you who say any differently are simply wrong. I appreciate the help, especially from Brian and Axn??? But the rest of you are just talking xxxx (in the British style). One of u is able to see the signatures that I am plainly able to see. I'm sorry I can't recall ur name right now, but I'd really appreciate further input from you. Thanks again, Brian.

Hi Brian,

We just heard so many storys and seen so many on the web.

As You wrote , You are new to this field ,then try listen to us. We have many years of experience. We are from many places in the world and we seen a lot..

Your sword has some issues. Im sure You dont know that there was made swords ,only to sell to soldiers who wanted a thophy after the war. When did Your grandpa get the sword ,was it in the occupided Japan?

Br

Thomas

[Kai-Gunto]

See, this is the problem. You guys act like you know what you are talking about, but you clearly don't. This blade is from 1945 Japan. That is a fact. Nothing has been done to it since. All of you who say any differently are simply wrong. I appreciate the help, especially from Brian and Axn??? But the rest of you are just talking xxxx (in the British style). One of u is able to see the signatures that I am plainly able to see. I'm sorry I can't recall ur name right now, but I'd really appreciate further input from you. Thanks again, Brian.

Hi Brian,

We just heard so many storys and seen so many on the web.

As You wrote , You are new to this field ,then try listen to us. We have many years of experience. We are from many places in the world and we seen a lot..

Your sword has some issues.

The way the ito is wrapped on the handle is wrong, no go.

Im sure You dont know that there was made swords ,only to sell to soldiers who wanted a trophy after the war. When did Your grandpa get the sword ?

Br

Thomas

[Dr Fox]

See, this is the problem. You guys act like you know what you are talking about, but you clearly don't. This blade is from 1945 Japan. That is a fact. Nothing has been done to it since. All of you who say any differently are simply wrong. I appreciate the help, especially from Brian and Axn??? But the rest of you are just talking xxxx (in the British style).

 

Brian,

 

As another newbee on the board, I beg you to be more open to the input you are getting here. The members you are requesting help from, are at worst, skill full, and at best experts in this field. You are at the moment closed minded, to any suggestions that you cannot except. You came to this board, please have the good grace to listen to opinions.

 

I am a student of nihonto, and have a nodding aquaintance with Gunto. Now I will tell you (in the British style) forget 1945 Japan, and its not a fact until it is indisputable.

 

Stolen quote: The mind is like a parachute, it works better when its open.

 

Welcome

 

Denis.

[Brian]

Brian,

You have to understand that we have heard the "grandfather brought this back from the war" thing many times...dealers have even more so. It's not that the person is lying, it's sometimes that grandpa got it sometime after the war and the story became slightly changed to become part of the family history. It's not unusual.

Combine that with the fact that fakes and put-togethers were happening already during the war, and end of it. Then there were people putting together repros for sale to servicemen who wanted to go home with a souvenir.

It is clear that this isn't some formal issued sword. It is too home-made for that. At best, consider it one of the colony expedient swords made by natives or untrained soldiers for Japanese soldiers who wanted a sword but had no access.

Afraid any stamp or "signature" is just going to be something added by an amateur. Get a better pic (talcum powder in the markings) and we can confirm.

The fact is that the people here do in fact know what they are talking about. The error usually lies with the history passed down.

 

Brian

[David Flynn]

A friend and myself, used to do Arms Fairs. So many, would come and tell how their Father/Grandfather, took a sword from a dead Japanese General. Most of these swords were never brought in. However, I remember a particular time, a chap brought in a "Generals Sword", with a blue brown tassel. Upon being told this was Junior Officers' rank tassel, I was informed that I was wrong and it had definitely come from a General.

[kusunokimasahige]

Hello Brian,

 

Study this site, as well as the English text on it and the images thoroughly.

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_002.htm

 

Then look at your own sword.

 

Best wishes,

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

I did some tweaking of the picture where I saw some indication of calligraphy. It may be just anything though. It is just too faint. Best I could do. John

[Kai-Gunto]

One alike....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sword- ... 43b682c413

[Humbabwe]

Hey guys, I don't want you to think that I am ungrateful for the information ive been given thus far. I'm really only complaining about a couple people who are saying things that I know not to be true. I can accept that it was made (most probably) by the Chinese as it fits with the story somewhat. He was shot down over China, got his crew out of the plane and ditched it. He was then chased through the mountains by the Japanese and ultimately managed to get to safety. The sword was acquired from the Chinese during this time period. So I'm not not accepting that information. I'm thankful for it. But some people are like "oh it was definitely created in 1984 in Detroit by a six fingered man with a stutter". And those are the kinds of claims to which I'm taking offense. Anyway, I'll find out exactly when he got the sword.

 

If anyone is interested, my aunt created a website of his journal entries and pictures... its a pretty cool story: http://rb-29.net/HTML/74Humbystory.html/00.25Humby.htm

 

Anyway, I'll let you guys know the exact year (it should be in the story) and thanks again for all (well, most of) the help. :D

Brian

[Humbabwe]

For what it's worth, this is a direct quote from my grandfathers journal... I'm rereading the whole thing, but this so far seems to be the only mention of the sword.

 

February 15, 1945: Up at 8 - good sleep - persimmons - breakfast with District Commander - much eggs - good meal. Had toast and real tea. Commander (General Chaou) gave me a Samurai sword - a swell one. Interpreter gave talk on location, Jap positions, etc. and we see that we really have been through it.

 

Does that date tell you anything?

 

Brian

[Dr Fox]

Brian

 

I feel you should have led, with this most brilliant account of a real wartime experience. And then followed on with the sword. The responses you would have got, might still not have suited you, but at least everyone would have been on the same page.

Regards

Denis.

[Humbabwe]

Agreed. I had simply forgotten about this. Glad I finally thought of it. Hope you all enjoy.

 

Brian

[Dr Fox]

Brian

 

Its not going to take an expert to tell you what you have got, or what its worth. Its easy, you have got a piece of your families history, from a time when the world was in turmoil. Your sword has a provenance, which hundreds of swords do not, and its worth? Brian to you its priceless.

Take on board all you have been told, and welcome, any further comments offered with good grace.

 

Regards

 

Denis

[Humbabwe]

Totally agree. I couldn't care less what its monetary price is. It will always be a piece of familial history, as well as a piece of eastern history (in which I am very interested). But that's why I'd like to know as much about it as possible. I have only taken exception to the few posts which call me or my Grandfather a liar (essentially). That's all that has pissed me off.

 

Thanks for understanding, Denis.

 

Brian

[Dr Fox]

Brian

 

Before we leave this.

 

You had some very considered suggestions from members, and to be fair without the benefit of your story, were pretty on the mark.

Would it not be fair, that even you when you say, "This blade is from 1945 Japan. That is a fact" can see that it was not a fact. (China/Japan)

 

Now lets start again, and look at my post 'You gotta see this' I was in the same situation as you. Look at the response offered. Read all posts on this board as I do, its a free education, and there,s not many of them lol.

 

Regards

 

Denis.

[Kai-Gunto]

Thats why some dont wanna help any more!

 

Wehrmacht awards forum is a very nice place for Japanese army and navy WW2.

[Humbabwe]

Any further help/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Brian

[Brian]

Brian,

Not going to be any more info than this I'm afraid. From the pics and info provided, there isn't much more that can be guessed that isn't pure speculation. Even the fact that your grandfather was given a sword...doesn't make it this sword.

However, the fact that he was given a sword by the Chinese, says to me that it was probably either made in that area, or was captured by the Chinese from some Japanese who served in a colony near there. I'm still of the opinion it was handmade outside of Japan...colony sword captured by the Chinese and given to your grandfather.We can tell you all day what it isn't....but what it is, is always going to be speculation. Any writing on it or stamps are not going to solve the dilema...they don't conform to a signature. Guess it will have to remain as an interesting item of militaria from that era.

 

Brian

[Humbabwe]

Cool. Thanks for that summation. I appreciate it.

 

Love this board... will see you all around.

 

Brian.