The Royal Myochin Munekane discovered.

[Luc T]

A few months ago, Lody Duindam from the Dutch Token asked me to loan some pieces on the World Museum in Rotterdam, on the occasion of an exhibition on the Samurai. At the opening, I received some catalogues, and I sent one up to the respected Teruo Orikasa in Japan.

Shortly thereafter I received a mail from him if I had more information about an exhibited armor of Munekane . Orikasa and Ishida were since 1999 looking for a harness that the last Shogun gave to the 'French' king. Orikasa thought he recognized this armor in the catalogue. The matter was further investigated, partly by Mr. Ishida, who has a copy of the diary of Munekane. The curator of the exhibition, Bas Verberk, immersed himself in the matter, and soon it was discovered that this armor must have been the gift from the Shogun to the Dutch king in 1855. This discovery made controversy in Japan, and will appear in the Japanese national press "on the most happy day, januari 1"

My question now is, does anyone know of armor, signed by Myochin Munekane?

[Shogun8]

This is very fascinating, Luc! I look forward to hearing how the investigation develops...

 

John

[IanB]

Luc, This is rather earlier than the gift to Queen Victoria who was given an 0-yoroi by Myochin Muneharu. What is less well known is that the armour was accompanied by a complete horse harness, two naginata and approximately 50 yari with raden shafts and gold saya. Interestingly the yari, at present divided between the Royal Armouries, the Victoria and Albert Museum and Windsor Castle, were all 10 feet long except four that are 8 feet long.

The armour you refer to must be that illustrated (rather badly) in Kei Kaneda Chappelear's book 'Japanese Armour Makers for the Samurai' on page 64 where it is described as being in Leiden.

Ian Bottomley

[kusunokimasahige]

Luc, I have seen your pieces at the exhibition !

 

I was a bit miffed that no one was allowed to photograph the items but did buy the catalogue for 25 Euros and am still

planning to scan the images and post them here, maybe someone else beats me to it, dunno.

 

The catalogue is great looking though I am not in agreement with some of the text written by the Japanologist about Japanese history and the culture of the Samurai themselves. But that is knit-picking.

 

For those who want to get the catallogue online, here is a link :

 

http://www.wereldmuseumwinkel.nl/pages/2/?categoryId=13

 

KM

[Luc T]

Ian, it is not the armor in Chappelear's book. This one was given at the same moment, but the armor in question, inspired on a O yoroi, is much more luxury (also stored in Leiden)

Both armor came together with some sets of byobu, bows, sets of arrows and so on. It was a present for the king after he gave the fast developping country an old vessel. The Japanese were very much interested in the shipbuilding techniques of the Dutch.

I know the English and French gave presents too in the Ansei period, everybody wanted to gain the sympathy of Japan for commercial purposes.

Henk-Jan, we have to give the curator a little credit. He is only 28 and has a lot to learn. Anyway, it's a clever youngman, and he is planning to write a thesis about Japanese armor. So I think we are going to hear from him in the future.

Maybe Jo has taken a picture on the opening ceremony. I will ask him to post it if he has one.

[kusunokimasahige]

Hey Luc, thank you for that information ! Will be looking forward to reading his book. Of course a cataloque cannot be all that extensive about Samurai culture and warfare. The descriptions and images of the armor however are great.

 

It was the first time for me to see that much Myochin work together. A great exhibition which I will visit again. Last time I spoke Lody was in Rotterdam at the opening of Shofukan's Garden Tea house.

 

I hope to get my scanner up and running coming week somewhere.

 

KM

 

For now, here are some lesser quality images I managed to take before getting told off by the museum guard :

 

 

 

 

 

[kusunokimasahige]

 

 

 

 

KM

[myochin]

Luc, there is a menpô signed Munekane in Burawoy's 1977 publication (Armes Japonaises dans les Collections Privées Françaises), p36 n°26.

 

Paul.

[Luc T]

here a picture from the Royal armor (copy from the catalogue)

[IanB]

Luc, Thank you for the image of the Royal armour. A splendid item - I have always liked susogoi lacing. The menpo reminds me of the work of Muneyasu, especially the small notch in the chin.

Ian Bottomley

[Luc T]

Ian, normally I don't like these young armors. Kabuto were mostly grotesque copies of kamakura hachi. But as you say, the menpo is stunning, as you see often with end edo men. The total concept of this set is very attractive. Especially the aspect of changing ito. Definetly the better work for this period.

[hybridfiat]

Luc, This is rather earlier than the gift to Queen Victoria who was given an 0-yoroi by Myochin Muneharu. What is less well known is that the armour was accompanied by a complete horse harness, two naginata and approximately 50 yari with raden shafts and gold saya. Interestingly the yari, at present divided between the Royal Armouries, the Victoria and Albert Museum and Windsor Castle, were all 10 feet long except four that are 8 feet long.

The armour you refer to must be that illustrated (rather badly) in Kei Kaneda Chappelear's book 'Japanese Armour Makers for the Samurai' on page 64 where it is described as being in Leiden.

Ian Bottomley

 

This 0-yoroi by Myochin Muneharu, was it part of the display in the Tower Armories during the 80s that included polished arrows and other numerous matching edged weapons given to Queen Victoria?

[IanB]

Steve, Yes, I have the catalogue but didn't manage to attend that exhibition. I cannot remember the exact date but seem to think it was a bit earlier. I am reasonably sure that the V&A Museum have a complete list of the Queen Victoria gift but I have never seen it published. The Muneharu o-yoroi is normally on show at the V&A. Unfortunately, The Tower of London was going through a bad patch as far as Oriental material was concerned during the decades when the gift was made and after. The staff at the time were very Europe orientated and ultimately removed all the Oriental items that were contaminating the place and transferred it to the British Museum and elsewhere. This sad situation was not reversed until the 1960's when Russell-Robinson began to reinstate items back into the collection. Ian Bottomley

[Luc T]

I suppose this is the Muneharu o-yoroi? sorry for the bad quality of the picture.

[kusunokimasahige]

Ian, is that the late H.Russel-Robinson you are speaking about ?

 

He has become somewhat of a saint in Roman re-enactment.

 

KM

[hybridfiat]

Steve, Yes, I have the catalogue but didn't manage to attend that exhibition. I cannot remember the exact date but seem to think it was a bit earlier. I am reasonably sure that the V&A Museum have a complete list of the Queen Victoria gift but I have never seen it published. The Muneharu o-yoroi is normally on show at the V&A. Unfortunately, The Tower of London was going through a bad patch as far as Oriental material was concerned during the decades when the gift was made and after. The staff at the time were very Europe orientated and ultimately removed all the Oriental items that were contaminating the place and transferred it to the British Museum and elsewhere. This sad situation was not reversed until the 1960's when Russell-Robinson began to reinstate items back into the collection. Ian Bottomley

 

 

Thanks Ian, I was entranced by the display. It was a complete contrast to most of the dull, workaday european edged weapons.

The technical perfection but with simplicity of design in the Japanese weapons made a lasting impact on me.

[RdR]

I assume this thread is no longer active and  I do not know if I understand it correctly. However, I do know of a set of armor by Myochin Munekane dated 1855. Let me know if you are still looking for it! 

[Shogun8]

18 hours ago, RdR said:

I assume this thread is no longer active and  I do not know if I understand it correctly. However, I do know of a set of armor by Myochin Munekane dated 1855. Let me know if you are still looking for it! 

 

Ruben,

 

Please do post any information or images you may have!

[uwe]

Sure Ruben, please don’t hesitate!

[RdR]

Sorry for the late replyx exams. Could he be looking for the armor displayed in the museum of Volkenkunde in Leiden. It is a full set of armor, dated 1855. On the site it had barely any information about it, except for the year 1855 and that it was made by Myochin Munekane. I am writing a small work on it for school, that's how I found it. I'll give you a link: 

 

This should work: https://collectie.wereldculturen.nl/?query=search=packages=OnViewRV#/query/944ad708-5060-4637-be80-33ef92fb1c01

Otherwise just look for "samoerai harnas"

 

There is a different thread that was just made, discussing this piece of armor: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/34397-question-myochin-munekane-armor-in-leiden/?_fromLogin=1
 

If any OP or veteran commenter knows anything about this armor or has any sort of source I would be very interested. In general I would love to see how it turns out. 

 

[RdR]

 

 

To me it seems identical 

[Iekatsu]

The above is an armour model from the showa period, it has no bearing on the topic. But in the same search the other components for the armour appear to match. 

[RdR]

1 hour ago, Iekatsu said:

Het bovenstaande is een pantsermodel uit de showa-periode, het heeft geen betrekking op het onderwerp. Maar in dezelfde zoektocht lijken de andere componenten voor het pantser overeen te komen. 

ah yea sorry that was the wrong picture. I meant this one! Does this have anything to do with the topic? 

https://collectie.wereldculturen.nl/#/query/d59555db-7eac-4718-a2f8-e1d69a9abd06

 

[Iekatsu]

Ruben,

The images are a little rough, but I would say it is the same armour that was posted by Luc earlier in the thread.