Hawley Collection: Koto period Yasumitsu Osafune

[Nathan Scott]

Hi all,

 

I was wondering if I could bother some of you for opinions on the sword linked below. The page linked kind of explains the context of this post, but in short, I'm assisting the Hawley Family here in California with evaluating their sword collection. Depending on several factors, some or all of the swords may be sold. But initially they need to better understand what it is they have and make a determination as a family as to what the best course of action will be. In the spirit of being forthcoming, while the insights gained here may be used to evaluate and value the sword(s), it is not our intention to quote anyone's names in a sales listing. On the other hand, since my expertise is not in collecting or evaluating, I'm not going to be of much help to them in this regard, and am relying heavily on the advise and experience of those more knowledgeable. Obviously, my/our fear is incorrectly documenting the collection, as well as possibly under/over valuing them.

 

In any event, there are only (20) swords left, most of which do not appear to me to be "high-value". One that is clearly of higher value is the Koto period Yasumitsu linked below. On about half of these Hawley swords, I have the benefit of referencing W.M. Hawley's own specs and comments that were published in his Sword Oshigata book. Also, in most cases I have a sheet containing the estimated values of these swords from when most the collection was stolen ca. 1981.

 

In regards to the Yasumitsu, I know it was one of the two most favorite of Hawley's swords. He referred to is as a "Child's Katana", I assume, based on the very thin width and corresponding short length. The photos I've taken so far don't really show how "petite" this sword really is when held in the hand (I'll try to add some more/better photos soon), however, one expert I've been talking to believes that this is not *necessarily* a child's katana because apparently the Yasumitsu's of this period were often of similar specs. As far as value goes, Hawley considered it rare (based partly on the belief that it was a child's katana), and valued it in 1981 at $30,000 USD. Though it is not papered, in Hawley's notes he wrote that it was of "Bunkazai" (I guess juyo bunkazai?) quality.

 

So, Bunkazai quality? Really a child's katana? If so, would is still hold or exceed such a value +30 years later? If it's not a child's katana, much would that affect the rareness and value?

 

Any comments about the sword and its estimated value would be greatly appreciated! (either way its a nice sword to look at)

 

http://www.nichigetsukai.org/hawley/nihonto-eval.htm

 

Thanks much for your time and attention,

 

Nathan Scott

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Nathan,

I'm not an expert. For what it's worth, my opinion:

Child's katana (Boy's Day swords) are usually less, not more, valuable than a standard length sword of similar quality by the same smith. I'm quite doubtful that this sword could be worth $30,000 without a paper, and that valuable only with a high rank paper (Juyo or better). It's not certain this sword with a Juyo paper would be worth that amount (I'd guess a bit less) and it would cost $3,000 to $4,000 to get the paper (and it's not certain the sword would get the paper). As is, the sword might be worth someplace in the mid 4 digits (but I haven't seen the sword so what do I know?).

Others may have other opinions but that's what I think. Grey

[Brian]

Nathan,

In my novice opinion, this is a sword that needs a lot more research. When looking at it, I get the distinct feeling that this sword has been somewhat reworked in a very unusual way. Looking at the nakago, the soe-hi (thin line) looks very odd running through the nakago like that. It looks like that area would have originally been blade..not nakago. However this type of hi is usually accompanied by a wider groove (bo-hi) and then I notice that the mune side of the nakago has a scalloped edge that looks like it may have been the start of a wider groove before the nakago was thinned. Also, this scalloped groove seems to end right where the "mitsu" kanji ends.

For this to be the case though, the whole width of the sword would have had to have been reduced from the back side. If this was the case, then the dimensions would have been off..and the whole sword would have had to have been quite a bit longer. But that means the mei is misplaced and added later....?

This is just an impression from first glance, hope to hear from others. Hope you don't mind if I copy one or 2 pics here to illustate what I mean.

We all owe Mr Hawley a huge debt for what he did for Nihonto collecting and preservation. He was quite an authority, and I think that if he deemed it to be of great quality, then he probably knew what he was talking about, and had likely run it past some of his Japanese friends.

However, this one really does need to be seen in hand. Perhaps by a future State-side shinsa panel?

Good luck with your research into the remains of this collection.

 

Brian

[Geraint]

Hi Natahan.

 

I think Brian has spotted some really important points about the sword. If you have a look at the comparable wakizashi on here, http://www.ricecracker.com/ you may find it helps throw some light on the sword you are working with. (Item 517). Edit Admin - Link added http://www.ricecracker.com/inventory/it ... imitsu.htm

 

Oei Bizen sugata tends to be slender and given a rather hard life might result in the very slim sword you describe. If large amounts of metal have been removed from the mune that might also produce the slightly strained sugata. While I can quite understand that on first sight an over polished sword with a very slender sugata might be categorised as a boy's sword I think this was a mistake. Once you have the idea it is hard to shake it off and this may be what has occurred. If the market rate for a fairly healthy, polished and papered sword by one of the Oei san mitsu is $19k then a severely worn, unpapered sword which has lost many of its indicative charcteristics is going to be significantly less.

 

I am sure we would all be delighted to be proved wrong on this as a tribute to what we have all learned through the man's work, I look forward to other comments.

 

All the best

[Eric H]

General information on Osafune Yasumitsu

 

His swords normally exhibit utsuri -bo utsuri as also midare utsuri-, does your Wakizashi show utsuri?

The Ko-Wakizashi from Quiz 208 was offered with Koshirae for JPY 1,800,000

 

http://www.nihonto.com/abtartshodaiyasumitsu.html

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14100&start=0

http://www.aoi-art.com/kantei/kantei50.html - Appraisal Quiz 50

http://www.aoi-art.com/kantei/kantei51.html - Apraisal Answer 50

http://www.aoi-art.com/kantei/kantei208.html - Appraisal Quiz 208

http://www.aoi-art.com/kantei/kantei209.html - Appraisal Answer 208

 

Eric

[Jean]

Yhe mekugi ana are very close to the mune, not centered.. Compare with this one:

 

http://www.nihonto.com/5.3.11.html

 

The hada is rough, even with out of focus pictures, it can be seen. 10K$ at most with papers.

[Curran]

To be very blunt:

if the mei checks out in its current condition, probably $3000 to $4000

the condition is an issue.

 

Also please see thread here for Yasumitsu information: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14100

 

Healthy papered Oei Yasumitsu O-tanto command a premium and go for around $8000 to $12000. One on Choshuya.com popped off quickly for around $5000-$5500. The slender wakizashi type turned out in larger numbers after 1410 or so go for less. The Morimitsu example linked has been up for a very long time. The one on Nihonto.com is polished, papered, nice habaki & shirasaya, and has been up for one (to two) years?

The Hawley one is akin to them, though Brian is right about the issues and it does look more like a boy's sword or a very polished down altered slender wakizashi.

The spread on Yasumitsu work is rather wide. The best Yasumitsu tachi command over 6 figures. A slender later Yasumitsu "wak" in questionable condition will be decidedly in the 4 figure camp. Not $30000.

[kunitaro]

I agree with Brian's comment.

It is clear that it was Bo-hi and Soe-hi. and half of Bo-hi is off at Nakago, and only Soe-hi is left on the blade which is meaning that most of Shinogi parts is off of this blade.

And What do you think about the signature ?

[Peter Bleed]

Friends,

I almost didn't read this thread because this is not my kind of sword. But I am very glad I did. The sword IS worth looking at. And the discussion has been positive and informative. This is the kind of discussion that makes the Forum important! Thanks.

Peter

[Nathan Scott]

Wow, these are some GREAT insights! The logic behind the possibility that the blade was ground down from the mune side makes a lot of sense, and is something I never would have thought of. The shinogi is very high, high mekugi-ana, scalloped mune, and the hi running through the signature, etc, does seem unusual. If this is true, then it may have been a full size katana that was ground down to be a child's katana? The mei takes up the entire nakago - do ya'll think it was added later, or just cut down around the mei in order to preserve it?

 

In any event, it looks to my untrained eyes like a pretty good job of modifying a larger sword, if this is true. If it has been cut down, would it greatly de-value the sword, or might it be unusual enough to warrant a reasonable value based on curiosity / rareness factor?

 

It will be a little while before I can get out there and take better photos, but I'll upload them when I do.

 

Thanks very much for all the attention to this sword.

[kusunokimasahige]

The two nakago images indeed would lead me to believe that the sword was made smaller from the mune at the exact place of the original Bo-Hi of the sword before it was changed. The smaller, later added Bo-Hi would befit a child in size.

 

About value I would not know. If the full provenance of it was known, who owned it as a boy for instance a lot more could be said. To have a Shinsa panel look at it would also be a good idea.

 

KM

[Jean]

2/3K$

[Eric H]

Indeed the shape, proportions and measures, make it plausible that this is intended as a „Child‘s Katana“ from start, rather than a blade has been modified and thinned down. I‘d like to draw your attention on the Nakago-jiri, it is different from all examples I have in my library.

 

Eric

[Brian]

Eric,

You say it doesn't look altered from a longer, bigger sword....but then say that the nakago jiri doesn't match...which is one of the prime indicators that it is altered.

Taking one of your posted pictures..I removed some material from the nakago mune...moved it inwards the same way I expect this sword was reworked. See what the result is now. Not hard to see how such a nakago could have been created imho. Also look at the new mei placement and the look of the hi. Looks close to me..although not 100% of course. I cannot say if this is by Yasumitsu or not..but the patina is exactly what you would expect. Mr Hawley was also well educated in Nihonto..so I expect if he said it was a well made sword, it probably is. But values have changed greatly over time, as has research into mei etc.

 

Brian

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

 

Look at the grooves :

 

 

[mdiddy]

I agree the nakago mune looks altered. Consider the awkward angle as the nakago meets the munemachi.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Food for thought; Sorry, do not believe there was ever a bo hi-soe bi, but more likely a futa suji hi, and we must begin by asking ourselves what is this sword meant to represent? My impression is a (boy days) copy of a Ko Bizen, and then work from there.

[Ted Tenold]

Hi Nathan!

 

Shibaraku deshita! I hope you are well!

 

I agree with the view others have expressed here, and Franco's is spot on; Look at the shape and work of the blade above the habaki. It might also be helpful to keep in mind that it looks to have been "made into" a child's sword rather than "made as" one. My instinct is that it's a modification for 19th century export, and as such was altered for a saleable curio or novelty piece for display perhaps on Boy's day, but not for wear by a boy.

 

Aside from the fondness that Mr. Hawley obviously had for it, the essential arithmatic is that it's a small, greatly altered, unpapered example. The conditional issues of it will preclude achieving a higher tier of paper that will in turn bolster a higher value. Aside from the validity of the mei, the work in the blade will determine if will acheive any tier of paper.

 

Take Care and Good Luck!

 

*edited for clarity*

[Nathan Scott]

Hey Ted!

 

Nice to hear from you. Man, it's been a while, huh? Hope all is well.

 

Thanks for your views. Unfortunately, I think the option of getting some of these swords papered in Japan and sent back isn't going to be realistic. I'm not sure what factors Mr. Hawley was taking into consideration, other than his belief that it was a samurai boy's katana, and that it was a rare example. But I'm sure there is a lot more information and examples accessible now than there was then.

 

BTW, when I get time I'll post some photos of that naginata you polished for me. Good stuff!

 

Regards,

[Eric H]

Brian, the pictures you have posted and the explanations are convincing :D

 

Eric

[Jean]

Nathan,

 

Coming back to your first post of this topic, it explains perhaps why it is part of the 20 remaining swords in Mr Hawley's collection...

[Nathan Scott]

Hi Jean,

 

I know what you're getting at, but in actual fact the thieves had to truck the swords down a steep hillside 100 steps. Out of the 150 swords that were in the collection, I don't know the exact number of how many were stolen (they were burglarized twice, actually), but I do know the 20 that are left represent the ones that weren't stolen combined with several that were later recovered. According to popular theory, the people who actually conducted the burglaries were probably not sword enthusiasts themselves, so I doubt they would understand what to look for.

 

I'm actually intending on posting a list of the stolen swords on my site in case any more of them pop up. Maybe I'll post it here too(?).

 

Regards,

[Jean]

Yes, Nathan, do it please

[Curran]

Not collecting until at least a decade after the theft. Curious to see the list.

 

Hawley c.1981, theft:

[nagamaki - Franco]

How many thieves does it take to side a house?

 

Six if you slice them real thin.

[Dr Fox]

From a novice who will stand to be corrected!

A boys sword would be forged as just that, a miniature katana? So all the features would be in scale to a full sized model? Am I right so far?

Having fixed my mind on that concept, please advise me on this!

If the tsuka is to match this nakago, the mekugi will be in a definite ‘off centre” position in the tsuka, because of the placement of the ana.

If the tsuka is overbuilt, to place the mekugi as normal, then the blade will be seen to be out of centre in the tsuka.

????

 

Denis

[kunitaro]

I think that we need to confirm Mei first.

 

if the signature is good, which is meaning Nakago is original,

and if Kissaki and Boshi are original,

then the blade is an original, only Shinogi and mune is re-shaped.

[Curran]

Well, as you touched earlier... signature doesn't look so good.

 

See signatures here-

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/12388.html

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/12525.html

 

Easy litmus test with Yasumitsu: Look at far right-hand atari of the 'mitsu' cross-stroke.

Genuine Yasumitsu, the *atari* almost always points a little down. Also chisel is a bit narrow, like a fine point pen.

 

Both examples at Aoi Arts show this. ALso, two of Eric's fine examples show this clearly.

 

If atari is 90 degree or points up a bit, then explore further with serious doubts.

For such a simple character, Yasumitsu's "Mitsu" is very distinct.

[Nathan Scott]

Hi all,

 

I'll post the list of stolen swords here soon. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

Obviously, I'd be very interested to get confirmation for or against whether the mei is real or not. Knowing that is critical, so any help would be much appreciated. It seems like a lot of work to waste to obviously reshape a sword and attach a fake mei to it though - not that it couldn't happen.

 

As far as a Boy's sword, not that I would know, but I could see where a full sized katana would be re-shaped due to damage or flaws to the mune or shinogi-ji. Better than discarding it.

 

Regards,

[Jean]

Whatever the reason, Nathan, the blade value is 1/10th of the 30k$ estimation, if the mei is good.

 

I think you can send a picture of it to NTHK - Gordon Robson and, for a small fee, he can tell you if it is a fake or not.

 

People on Board can post his mail address.