Help/opinions please- newly acquired wakazashi

[st468]

Hi all,

 

I'm brand new to this forum and new to Nihonto in general. When purchasing some guns, the seller had an "old sword" that his dad brought home after WWII. Being that it was not German (I collect some WWII German dress daggers and swords along with guns, etc.), I was not really interested in it. So he just threw it in for cheap. After a while I got around to researching it and it actually appears to be a real antique wakazashi. With the exception of the fact the tsuka appears improperly wrapped, the menukis are missing, and the blade has been improperly cleaned, I think the piece might be something pretty good.

 

I was hoping to learn if the thing is correct in its configuration and parts. Also I'd really like to know how old it is, even if it's just an estimate or range. I am seriously considering having the blade fully polished. Whether I sell it after being polished or keep it, will depend on how it turns out and what the estimated value might be. Though the more I research these things the more intrigued I become. I may just end up keeping it and/or upgrading to a nicer one. Another budding collector perhaps?...

 

Additional info: Unfortunately the tang is not signed, which I understand really hurts the value and makes a piece very difficult to date. The iron tsuba measures 2 7/8" by 2 3/4" and 4mm thick. The seppas are real gold over what appears to be copper. The habaki is also gold (rather thick plate) over probably copper. The sori is 1.0cm. Total length of the blade including the tang is 23 5/8". Tang length to the cuts for the habaki is about 5 5/8". The blade has some surface staining but it not pitted anywhere. There's one very small nick to the cutting edge. I can't make out a hamon pattern because of someone's prior cleaning, likely with steel wool or something. There is some very fine scratching. I can see a little bit of hamon and hada in the small area which was covered by the habaki and not cleaned. Not enough can be seen to make any determination of the pattern as far as I can tell. In looking at the transition from the area covered by the habaki to the exposed blade, it looks like the blade has not been polished away too much. The transition is smooth, it does not look like much metal is missing off the blade in general. The yokote line is fairly obvious also. The blade is quite sharp throughout and the edge shows no signs of being improperly sharpened.

 

Sorry this has gotten so long. Please take a look at the pictures and fire away! Thanks in advance for any and all opinions.

 

Kory

[st468]

Here are some additional pictures.

[st468]

And the last two pictures I have right now. Thanks,

 

Kory

[John A Stuart]

You have a wakizashi that is in relatively good shape. Some blade rust that needs attention and a new wrap for the tsuka. John

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Kory,

Your wakizashi looks to be no older than 16th century (same can be said for almost all wakizashi) but where in that time period is tough to say given the little information we have to work with. If I had to guess I'd say Shinshinto (18th or 19th century) but I'm no where near sure on that.

I think having this blade polished now would be a big mistake. There is a FAQ at the top of the board that goes into this more thoroughly but basically my point is that beginners often get this wrong. For instance: they use cheap, amateur polishers who damage the blade, they don't know proper care and screw up the new polish once they have the sword back home, and/or they don't know enough about Nihonto to know if the blade carries enough value to warrant a polish. Your wakizashi might be a good candidate for a real polish and you might be among the few beginners who don't mess the polish but there is no reason to hurry into this. Take some time to learn; the rest can wait.

Grey

[st468]

Thanks very much for the opinions so far. I'd certainly use a good polisher, perhaps Moses Becerra or David Hofine, or someone else who is reputable and comes highly recommended.

 

Are there any other factors I can look at in order to get a better idea of when it was made? I think if I do end up having it polished I'll keep it as a collectible. If not, I think I'd probably just sell it as/is and move on. I do understand there are some additional responsibilities in caring for a Nihonto blade. I am very careful in caring for my other highly valuable collectibles and antiques and I think I could learn through additional research while waiting the year+ for the polishing to be completed if I was to go that route.

 

I fully understand the warning to not jump into this in a big hurry, but I just can't help but to wonder how great this thing would look in full polish and with the tsuka correctly wrapped. I suppose I need to determine if the blade is even a good candidate for the polish first. Thanks again for the opinions so far, very much appreciated.

 

Kory

[st468]

A few more pictures (please forgive my poor photography skills) and a couple more questions.

 

As is quite obvious, this blade is badly out of polish and exhibits some discoloration from old, cleaned rust. I'm fairly certain this one is restorable and I may eventually choose to have it polished at some point.

 

1. Damage. There are some nicks on the blade (see pictures) and I wonder if these are typical/indicative of battle damage. They look to be blade strikes, at least to me. Am I correct in this assumption? Is this fairly often seen, and does this damage significantly hurt the value to most collectors?

 

2. I tried my best to photograph the hamon pattern where it is most apparent, but it is difficult to make it all out due to the previous improper cleaning (fine scratching). Any opinions on what little can be seen of the hamon? Is there enough here to point to a possible maker/period/school?

 

3. Hada. I can't seem to capture it in pictures as it is mostly obscured by the previous cleaning. Though in a few spots I can see a very intricate pattern, like a very tight wood grain with straight, curved, etc. patterns. This type of hada, coupled with the hamon pattern, does it indicate anything specific?

 

4. Tsuba/fittings/habaki/saya. Assuming these are original to the blade, do these help indicate a more specific time period of manufacture? Especially the tsuba, any thoughts on it? I can't find another like it anywhere. Is this piece pre 1800s? Pre 1700s? I am aware someone improperly re-wrapped the tsuka after (stealing) the menuki...

 

All opinions (good or bad) are greatly appreciated. Thanks,

 

Kory

[st468]

Some more pictures. Thanks,

 

Kory

[Wickstrom]

Kory,

 

I'll give it a shot at helping you out a bit

 

The nicks on the spine of the blade are indeed blade strikes called Kiri-Komi. I recall reading somewhere that the NTHK don't count kiri-komi against a blade when they judge it so I don't believe it would detract anything. As for the flaw on the shinogi, it looks like it could be shinae maybe? I'm not sure on that one. The hamon looks like Gunome and Choji mixed together to my eye. Your description of the hada definitely sounds like itame. I'm not too familiar with the different schools, but maybe a more senior member could help you out with that.

[nagamaki - Franco]

The nicks on the spine of the blade are indeed blade strikes called Kiri-Komi.

 

sorry, , disagree, not correctly shaped in my opinion to be from an actual nihonto strike. Perhaps some fooling around damage of some sort, but not from a real nihonto cut.

 

I fully understand the warning to not jump into this in a big hurry, but I just can't help but to wonder how great this thing would look in full polish and with the tsuka correctly wrapped. I suppose I need to determine if the blade is even a good candidate for the polish first.

 

One consideration is having a window polished in the sword. Which would give the satisfaction of small section of the sword in full polish at a fraction of the cost of a complete polish. It also gives the next owner a look at what's there. And it creates the opportunity to get a polishers opinon and feedback. Most polishers seem willing to squeeze this kind of work in to their schedule.

[uwe]

Hi Franco,

there is not much, speaking against the nicks are kiri-komi (except the one in pic 1415). What causes your opinion?

 

Andrew,

I can`t see shinae. The only vague flaw is that on the mune in pic 1415 as mentioned before

 

All in all, a nice shinto wak, based on the pics. Worthwhile to be concerned about, IMHO

 

Uwe

 

PS: Missed mune-machi in the pics :?

[Marius]

As for the flaw on the shinogi, it looks like it could be shinae maybe? I'm not sure on that one.

 

Definitely not shinae.

[Jorgensen]

I like the tsuba - it have the shape of an ass

[Ron STL]

From what I can see, the boshi appears to be a continuation of the hamon and if so, I'd call this at least sue-koto, maybe Keicho period. Into shinto I would expect to see the boshi become suguha. Although the shinshinto smiths went back to continuing the hamon pattern thru the boshi, this blade doesn't appear shinshinto. The fuchi/kashira look to be Mino style and from this late koto period. The very narrow (up/down) fuchi shows this age.

 

Ron STL

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hi Franco,

there is not much, speaking against the nicks are kiri-komi (except the one in pic 1415). What causes your opinion?

 

Every kiri komi I have seen without exception has a very distinctive 'V' shape. The only varying traits being the angle and depth of the 'V'.

[Soten_Fan]

I too think that it is a bit earlier than shinto. The hamon looks like midare gunome. I think it could make a good candidate for a polish, but it should done by a good polisher as the person who cleaned the sword did quite a bit of damage (yokote, etc).

 

BTW, am I the only one who thinks that the tsuba is astonishingly poor?

[Lance]

I think the tsuba might have originally had Kaga style Zogan (inlay) Maybe done in gold or at some point a previous owner thought it was and removed it all, posted a pic for comparison.

Regards,

Lance

 

took example from here (finding it is like Where's Waldo but it's a great website to browse through)http://home.comcast.net/~ColHartley/VirtualMuseum/VirtualMuseumJapaneseArmor.htm

 

Regards,

Lance

[uwe]

From what I can see, the boshi appears to be a continuation of the hamon and if so, I'd call this at least sue-koto, maybe Keicho period. Into shinto I would expect to see the boshi become suguha. Although the shinshinto smiths went back to continuing the hamon pattern thru the boshi, this blade doesn't appear shinshinto. The fuchi/kashira look to be Mino style and from this late koto period. The very narrow (up/down) fuchi shows this age.

 

Ron, I totally agree . However, we don`t know, if the koshirae belongs to the blade. Hence, it has little evidential value. At first glance, I thought I saw saki-sori and for the nakago I put it rashly towards shinto :?

 

Every kiri komi I have seen without exception has a very distinctive 'V' shape. The only varying traits being the angle and depth of the 'V'.

 

Franco,

I can`t judge the cross section of the nicks by means of this pics. But shape and position pointing to kiri komi

Uwe

[ROKUJURO]

I think the tsuba might have originally had Kaga style Zogan (inlay) Maybe done in gold.....

Gold or another metal application would - at least in my imagination - not make this a better or nicer TSUBA. I like the shape but the design is somewhat crudely made. Looks as if a christian amateur tried himself on that one, so it may have some historical value.

[Lindus]

All else aside ,the first sword is like the first woman{Exclude girl},enjoy and learn.

Roy

[st468]

Now to resurrect on old thread... The wak discussed in this thread has now been polished in Japan and returned to me. I used Kunitaro san's service (a respected member here) and I am very pleased with the results. I have posted a few post-polish pictures in the thread here on this board which discusses Kunitaro san's service ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17115&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45 ). I plan to take better pictures very soon under better lighting since these first pictures are quite poor and taken under commercial fluorescent lighting, and I will post the better pics here ASAP.

 

Unfortunately I didn't get a whole lot of opinion/kantai from the master polisher due to the timing, but what I did get was this: He said the blade is Koto period and O-suriage. Also it was said it is of "high quality" and it has seen many polishes. Being that the recent polish done was modern style (hadori), I think it somewhat masks a different type of hamon beneath. I think it may be some sort of choji, and I will try to better capture this in the new pictures to come. It is easy to see when the blade is in-hand though.

 

As far as flaws go, besides the (maybe/probably) blade strikes, there is a very tight ware about an inch long just above the real hamon on the left side, about mid-blade. It is not extremely noticeable though. Other than that I think this is a pretty decent blade, other than maybe it's a little bit tired. It certainly is razor sharp!

 

I will never sell this one, so it is not a monetary value I am interested in, rather just opinions of age/date/school/history. I just want to know more about it as I am still quite a greenhorn in this area. Was this an old, long tachi cut down? How old?

 

Any and all opinions, good or bad, will be greatly appreciated, and as I said I will post additional pictures here as soon as possible. Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding considering my inexperience. I'm sure the "newbies" here can get quite annoying to some of you...

 

Thanks,

 

Kory

[Geraint]

Hi Kory.

 

That's a great result! Time to find a nice pair of menuki and have the tsuka wrapped to complete this lovely package.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that the saya appears to be covered in lacquered same polished back and is rather nice.

 

It's going to be very hard to express an opinion about your sword from the photographs. How about you have a go at an oshigata?

 

No need to get carried away, find some thin paper and a selection of ordinary pencils, tricky work but it can show a lot and the process of trying to represent what is in the blade is an education.

 

In any case, as Roy says, enjoy this! The only question now is will you ever recover or have you caught the bug>

 

All the best.

[st468]

Hi Geraint,

 

Thanks for your post. I definitely plan to restore the koshirae. I plan to either have made, or make myself, a tsunagi and have the tsuka professionally re-wrapped once I can find some suitable menuki to go with it. I may have to send the saya to a pro to have the lacquer touched up, as I'm afraid I would do more harm than good trying it myself. That's a good idea trying to make an oshigata. I'm not the best at drawing though...

 

I'm posting some more pictures in an attempt to show the hamon and hada, and I'm having a heck of a time getting what my eyes see to actually come out in photos! Also I'm wondering if it would be a waste of time and expense to try to get the blade papered at the upcoming shinsa in Chicago? Opinions?

 

Thanks much,

 

Kory

[st468]

And a few more...

 

Thanks,

 

Kory

[hxv]

Kory,

 

Perhaps you can play with the angle of the lighting and the angle of the camera, and focus on a smaller segment of the sword, to try to show the hamon, hada, and hataraki.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[ancientnoob]

Kory san,

 

Its a strong attempt at showing your sword. I am confident we cannot photograph the true beauty I can only imagine the pleasure you must feel. You have a great specimen.

 

I shot another photo of my Kissaki edge. I am sooo Im pressed that the polisher was able to correctly return the proper shape as part of a standard polish. WOW.

 

I have included a glamour shot and a before photo of the tip that was repaired. Sorry I posted my Kissaki pic in the wrong thread. *Edited*

[st468]

Nathan,

 

Excellent how that Kissaki turned out, your sword really looks great, probably a bit healthier than mine from what I can see. Please post more pictures when you get the chance...

 

General followup:

 

I've taken some more pictures trying to better capture the true hamon. This is about the best I can do with the cheap camera I have at this time. I'm hoping some of the more experienced members here can help me learn more about the hamon, and when it may date to approximately, and/or learn what school/smiths produced this type, or at least point me in the right direction for additional study. It is a quite narrow hamon and very varied in shape and width. It is quite complex and beautiful in-hand, and it's extremely easy to see in person without manipulating the blade in different light- unlike in the damn pictures! I think it is some sort of choji, but in some spots it is almost suguha (see picture 3028 for an example). In some spots it looks like it is made up of little "clouds" and oblong shapes, and in a few areas these "clouds" appear slightly above or slightly disconnected from the actual temper line. Also as hopefully can be seen in the pictures, there is a wood grain pattern evident throughout most of the true hamon. It is a different pattern/grain than is apparent in the ji. Sorry for taking up so much space with all these pictures, but hopefully somebody sees something they recognize in at least one of them and can offer me some insight. Thanks!

 

Kory

[st468]

And the rest of what I have at this time...

 

Kory

[D McCutcheon]

awesome pictures and really nice sword there, I am pretty much at the stage you were asking all the newbie questions about my new sword and wondering if I should spend the extra effort refurbishing the the fittings and getting the sword professionally polished

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Kory,

I haven't reread the complete thread so excuse me if this has been said already. The white stuff in the saya lacquer is fish vertibra. Embedded in an early coat of lacquer, lacquered over, and polished down to bring it all flush and showing.

Grey