Huge Katana, 77,5 cm nagasa - help please

[kunitaro]

Jimi san,

Sorry for slow reply,

The blade is looks like Modern smith Higo Akamatsu Taro family's work,

mr.Kimura Kanesada, Akamatsu Taro Kenji, Kanesuke, Kanemitsu etc,

Kiyomaro utsushi.

(you can google, will find similar blades)

Kissaki has maybe broken and reshaped.

and you can see one side of Nakago has re-shaped (took the mei out),

What do you think ?

[Jorgensen]

I believe there are many questions to be solved by this blade and that there are some things speaking for the blade could be Nambokucho, but also for it to be Shinto/Shinshinto?!

 

The point about it wide mune-machi, compared to the nakago and the shape as Kunitaro says is very much to be considered. Could be a copy of older works? But, the nakago looks much older than Shinshinto. If Shinshinto, nakago should have been artificially aged. Otherwise if old blade, it has not been polished much, we can agree on that. My friend came with that point that this blade is to large and heavy to carry around like a normal blade, and might have been stored instead and not used much over time and therefore not have needed much polish.

 

But if Shinshinto or even Gendai - why make a fake signature??

 

Also the hada and hamon, does not to me looks like newer work? Newer works usually has much more tight hada as I recall?

 

However, it seems to me that I can slighty see some utsuri... I think some of the pics gives that impression too... but I may be wrong... Kissaki might have been repaired / tip broken, but boshi is fully intact and is as wild in style as hamon is.

 

On the tsuba, it tells this mount was made to Mr. Sone-shi. I am wondering if Mr. Sone-shi possible could have been a family member or part of the Hachisuka family/Daimyo (1400cth - to present day), since he has chosen to have the symbols on f/k. Its just guesses. Maybe the blade was made upon request / he had the blade and want it mounted / bought the blade somewhere and had it mounted. It could explain the nakago-ana closest to the blade as have been for shirasaya mount?

 

Most people judges Koshirae to be 1800cth, as well as myself, and if correct, the blade is at least not newer than 1800 cth?!

 

 

Here is some of the words from the polisher, judged from the pictures:

 

Your sword looks like a very nice piece. The signature is Tanshu ju Minamoto Masashige but in the NIHON TO MEIKAN there is no Tanshu Masashige.There is a Hoki and a Soshu smith which is similar kanji. The Hoki is a shin shinto smith and your sword looks to be Koto. From what I can see from your pictures the signature looks to new for the blade so maybe it is a fake. The sword looks like it could be a Hojoji piece because it has a large temper like he did. It also looks like it is a large katana and not a nagamaki. Overall I think a very good sword. The mounts are also very nice. If in fact your sword could turn out to be a Tanshu Hojoji Kunimitsu then it should be a very good sword to put to the Juto shinsa.

 

I had said your sword was signed Tanshu Ju but there is no Ju on your sword. If the ha nagasa is 77.6cm then it is 2 shaku 5 sun 6 bu and was probably at least several cm longer because I can see in your pictures the hamon seems to go back into the nakago meaning the ha nagasa might have been 80 plus cm long. With the long kissaki and long length then it could easily be from the mid Nambokucho era.

 

When I look at your nakago and the signature to mekugi ana placement then I come to the conclusion that it is probably a fake signature. In that it is not even a smith known to us and not listed makes me think it was added to help sell the sword years ago. Many unknown makers were added to give a sword some meaning when today it is better to have it unsigned rather than some made up name. A hundred years ago there were very poor records so many times unsigned sword were given names. The best swords that I have owned had fake signatures which I removed and got certified. One went to Tokubetsu Juyotoken.

 

In looking at the signature on your sword it looks like the cut of the kanji is newer that the rest of the nakago. Pictures are not the best to make a judgement on though.

 

I would think signature is fake because someone doing what looks like very good work would surely be listed in the meikan. My greatest hope would be that your sword would be a Hojoji Kunimitsu. He did big tempers like on your sword. If it could get an attribution to this smith then it could go Juto and be a very high priced sword.

[Ruben]

I believe there are many questions to be solved by this blade and that there are some things speaking for the blade could be Nambokucho, but also for it to be Shinto/Shinshinto?!

The point about it wide mune-machi, compared to the nakago and the shape as Kunitaro says is very much to be considered. Could be a copy of older works? But, the nakago looks much older than Shinshinto. If Shinshinto, nakago should have been artificially aged. Otherwise if old blade, it has not been polished much, we can agree on that. My friend came with that point that this blade is to large and heavy to carry around like a normal blade, and might have been stored instead and not used much over time and therefore not have needed much polish.

e[/i]

 

Hi Jimi- San,

 

what makes me wonder is on the 17. picture (I belive) it seems that the patina comes off in a small area... should not shine like this, also the last mekugi- hole was drilled and not burred afterwards. The patina seems very dark in the lower part of the nakago. Makes me also think it was added later.

Such an old sword with this ha- machi,... I dont believe it´s very likely!

The oxidation process in the last few hundred years speaks against the theory of not being much used.

On the other hand it could be very much shortened, cause 77cm is not a very huge sword, regarding the length.

In the past old men fought with much longer swords, it´s been recorded

The steel looks interesting, not typical for shinshinto, but I´am far from an expert!

 

Greetings

 

ruben

[cabowen]

Kunitaro san knows what he is talking about. I explore the path he has indicated.

[drbvac]

http://samuraiswords-hawaii.com/id41.html

 

Very similar and this is a copy of the shinshinto smith

[Jorgensen]

You are all right and have some good points... Speculations can be its a cutted down no-dachi og a shin-shinto/gendai that is artificially aged... A lot of guessing occurs... What really is making me confused is the hada, that is far from typical on newer blades... it also has some minor openings in the steel, that is often seen on older blades... would this be seen newly made blades??

[kunitaro]

would this be seen newly made blades??

Yes, midern blades are also sometime not perfect. if Kizu is not opened, just Kitae-line is eccepted.

the reason why i thought about Akamatsu-Taro family is that,

The Sugata of the blade and hamon itself and The shape of Nakago and Nakago jiri, and shape of Hamachi area are simillar.

The sugata of the blade is Osuriage(because no-funbari) of Nanbokucho period.

but, 3.8cm Motohaba, 0.85cm Kasane, 12000g of weight...

which is size of Gendai(modern)-blade.

 

There is a lot of Modern blade became o-suriage mumei sword in the antique market, some are with Hozon (or higher) paper.

[Jorgensen]

Hi Kunitaro,

 

I always appreciate your answers. Interesting and yes, I see the similarities... I have seached online and many examples of akamatsu-Taro is to be found... But can you explain me something further, that I dont understand (its a good debate, isnt it =)

 

The Sugata of the blade and hamon itself and The shape of Nakago and Nakago jiri, and shape of Hamachi area are simillar.

- Yes, I agree, some of the examples found are close - but Hada is still much more tight on these examples and also all are in heavy hadori polish - mine is not? Also kissaki differs somewhat I think...?

 

The sugata of the blade is Osuriage(because no-funbari) of Nanbokucho period.

- I agree, also my thought. But if blade was made in latest in the 80's or 90's, then what should the reason for this be?

 

but, 3.8cm Motohaba, 0.85cm Kasane, 12000g of weight... which is size of Gendai(modern)-blade.

- I agree, but can you explain to me, why it has much rust on nakago, when none of the examples of akamatsu-Taro, nor other gendai works found, has approx zero rust?

 

BTW... I am very sure, that the Koshirae is from 18cth... How could the blade be younger than the Koshirae??

 

 

I hope you consider the questions above as healthy questions and not written just to question you

 

(Guess I should go mumei the blade and get juyo papers )

[cabowen]

It was doctored to look like an older sword, that is why....