Shigetsugu vs. Nobufusa sword....Which is better.

[macan420]

Hi Folks I am currently selling my Shigetsugu listed on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/330818541718?ss ... 1555.l2649 . I have written about it on this site in another topic listing (put in Shigetsugu and it will come up). Recently the owner of this Nobufusa shown here on Matt Pepin's great site samuriasword.com. at this link http://www.samuraisword.com/nihonto_c/S ... /index.htm emailed me simply asking..........is your sword (Shigetsugu) better than my Nobufusa or about the same?

Now I emailed him my reply but asked him if I could post the question here on this forum for debate. He said fine.

So for anyone out there.......what is your opinion. Which sword is better, worst equal ect.? Since both smiths worked in the same time period and are rated equal at 2.5 million, it is probably a good debate.

One thing is for sure both smiths and swords are great. But what about the details? Any comment? How would you answer the email?

 

Best

Mike Canaday

[Mark]

difficult to say without seeing each sword. I have seen several Nobufusa blades with weak areas of hada and ware', but he obviously he made some great swords. Shigetsugu has the advantage of an interesting background and history but he did not actually forge most of his swords, i have seen several and there was a wide range or quality, guess depeding who forged them. From what i see in the pictures i would pick the shigetsugu, but pictures can be deceiving.

[cabowen]

Most of the Nobufusa blades made during the war era were made by the 7th generation, with many daisaku made by the 8th and the numerous students in the workshop (7-8 as I recall).

 

I have seen very few with a date. Most were probably made by many hands. I have seen lots of Nobufusa blades but very few that were really good. Again, I would think that this is to be expected given the division of labor at his forge. Most of what I have seen has had forging flaws and left me unimpressed.

 

He did make blades for horse racing prizes and these are the better of what I have seen.

 

The pictures on the site do not do the blade justice and there is no way of making any reasonable judgment of the quality. What we most likely have is a battle of daisaku blades and given the reputation of Shigetsugu's students, I would probably, if forced, go with them.

[macan420]

Thanks Mark and Chris, It is a battle. I know it is hard to judge without blade in hand. My pictures are of the highest quality provided by the people at Sabaku Samurai. The owner of Nobufusa states that the link pictures on the site do not do his sword justice.

Shigetsugu had some of the best students. Okimasa as you know is rated higher than his teacher. I do not know who was running around Nobufusa's shop at the time?

They are both nice swords......his signature on his sword is right out of the book. Do you really think it is daisaku? It does not look like WW2 quality......it is much better.

I thought my topic wold be a fair question.......of course I am more fond of my sword, but as you stated they have many similarities.

Aoi of Japan just listed a Nobufusa for auction.........280,000 yen....if anyones interested.

Chris you are a nihontoforum warrior............as always...... thanks again for your input.

 

 

Best

Mike

[Mark]

I do not mean to speak for him, but when Chris says the Shigetsugu is daisaku he may mean it was made by the student but signed by Shigetsugu. That was my thought. the mei would match and be his but if Okimasa made or another lesser smith it is hard to tell from a picture

[macan420]

Hi Mark, We (the forum at large) have hashed out this daisaku issue (please put Shigetsugu in this sites search window and hit my older topic" Exibited Shigetsugu........"). I do not mean to speak for Chris as well but I know he is implying and fairly certain both swords are most probably forged by students.......daisaku.

In my swords case.....I have been told that Shigetsugu did the Fudo most certainly (his students were not capable of this carving).....but it is unknown who did the blade. Althought it is signed that he made the blade and horimono. It is common that although signed by teacher.........it is often a combined effort. Especially in this era. Probably as you know.

I pobably did not write my response well, I assumed that you had been aware of previous forum topic. I went back and relized you did not weigh in.

 

Thanks for your input and time.

 

Best

Mike C

[macan420]

Hi THis just in from AOI ART Japan for comparision, below is their description and I will try to list the pictures they sent. This sword is for sale by them.

 

Signature: Hokke Saburo Nobufusa

 

The blade was polished.

Habaki : Silver foiled single habaki.

Blade length : 63.5 cm or 25 inches.

Sori : 1.1 cm or 0.43 inches.

Mekugi: 1

Width at the hamachi : 2.87 cm or 1.12 inches.

Width at the Kissaki : 2.09 cm or 0.82 inches.

Kasane : 0.77 cm or 0.30 inches.

Era : During war time.

Shape : The blade is regular sized healthy nice sword.

Jitetsu :Itame hada well grained with jinie attach and visible to see

the texture.

Hamon : Niedeki gunome midare and kogunome midare mixed.

In Hamon, there are many sunagashi and active many kinsuji scatter.

Boshi is round shape midairkomi.

 

Special feature :Hokke Saburo Nobufusa is quite well known sword maker

as Mukansa.

This Nobufusa is first generation and made swords during war time.

Generally he made soshu style hamon but this sword is gentle yamato school.

Interesting, nice polish. 280,000 yen. Any comments.

 

Best Mike Canaday

[SwordGuyJoe]

Just to weigh in here - I'd take a pass on both. Not saying they're not nice swords because they are. I'd pick the nobufusa if forced to chose between the two but Bizen, while my favorite wasn't his sole focus. But given the price range, I'd find an Okimasa like this (http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swo ... a/sk13.htm) and then take the additional 5-10k to either buy something else.

[macan420]

Hi Joe, I love Okimasa too. I use to own a Okimasa (it is listed on Fred Weissberg's site, My Ebay add has link to it or google it) I bought it from Ricecracker too. When i had both swords (Shigetsugu and Okimasa) next to each other.....the Shigetsugu overpowered the Okimasa.....no comparision about which one was nicer. I kept the Shigetsugu the longest.

The Okimasa in your link is sold already, to short for my taste. It is signed nice though. Great war sword. I am a sucker for nice horimono I guess.

My sword could very well be a Okimasa with Shigetsugu horimono, much longer and made at famous forge. That has to count for something. Afterall Shigetsugu was his teacher.

I know money is tight.....or I would not be selling. I cannot say anything bad about Okimasa.

I will chalk up your point for Nobufusa.

 

Thanks Joe..........you make good points. We all have are opinions.........it is still America.

 

Best Mike Canaday

[David Flynn]

Like always, each sword must be judged on it's own merit.