Ebay auction - Fraud?

[ts]

Good day,

 

I wanted to ask you guys whether or not the katana auctions of user thanks_you007 which appeared on ebay are frauds. For example this one: http://cgi.ebay.at/VINTAGE-HANDMADE-REAL-Japanese-SWORD-KATANA-RARE_W0QQitemZ180113375885QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20272QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Probably they are otherwise he wouldnt sell them for 1-10$ but what I dont understand is why these swords are looking like the work of a smith - i´m a newbie concerning katanas, but i know that forged swords are layered and that you can therefore see a grain/line pattern on them (Hada). So if the ebay sword´s a fraud how come it has this Hada pattern on it? Is it forged but not Japanese? Or is the pattern just "painted" onto the sword?

 

I´d really appreciate if someone could look at some of the swords this guy

offers on ebay and give me an opinion.

 

ts

[Mike]

Why buy fake sword from China? Mike

[Nobody]

Hi,

 

So called Chinese repro;

Though this is not a pleasant movie, this may answer your question.

[b.hennick]

The video is amazing! The Chinese have taken reproduction to a new gihger level. If those polishers were to set up in North America one wonders what they would do to the blades over here.

I noticed the handle wrapper did not place paper under the tsukaito as is the custom. The handle did look OK from far away.

[Kajihei]

>> otherwise he wouldnt sell them for 1-10$

 

Note his shipping charge. That's what pays for the sword.

[Guest Simon Rowson]

I love the khaki boot-lace sageo and ito........I guess the Chinese army are missing a few thousand pairs from their boots.

[mike yeon]

It should be mentioned that the blades in the Cheness video are NOT the chinese fakes you see on eBay selling for $1.00.

 

Those fakes meant to look anitique are produced in an even more crude fashion.

 

Interesting to see there's no use of a power hammer shown. Just 2 guys beating the billet.

 

mike

[ts]

First of all thanks for the answers.

Okay so these are made by some chinese wannabe smith who tried to make it look real. Apart from the impertinence to call these real Japanese swords... I wonder what properties such a "fake" blade would have? I mean to make them look authentic they have to use a similar forging process (at least the obvious parts like folding the metal). So it would be more elastic, harder to break and sharper than, for example, some machine made display swords or iaitos, wouldn´t it?

By the way I do not intend to buy one after having read your comments (bootlace :D ).

(Sadly I don´t have the money to buy a real Japanese Katana either.)

[eugene walton]

the good repos coming out of china, are made for martial arts or for people who want a good looking sword cheap, the Paul chen seem to be the best of these. hand made and I think better qual. than most of the Japanese swords made in ww2. ( but with no history ) folded steel water temperd. nice for the price, and not made to fool aneyone

[Grey Doffin]

About the sword in question, in answer to your questions: There is a mottled, almost polka-dot, appearance to the steel of this sword; I have no idea how that was done but I know it isn't found on real Japanese swords.

The sword also has what appears to be a grain, somewhat similar to what would be seen on the real thing. Usually on the fakes this grain is more pronounced; maybe the mottling has something to do with toning it down. On a real Japanese sword, grain is the crystalline structure of the steel made visible by a properly done polish. What you see are individual points that together make a pattern. On the fakes (this one included) what appears to be grain is actually different qualities of steel folded together. What you see on the fakes are lines of different steels as they appear on the side of the sword.

Hope I've got this right (think I do but you guys will correct me if I'm not) and hope this helps.

Take care, Grey

[Guest Simon Rowson]

Dear ts,

 

I didn't mean to sound facetious when I made fun of the Chinese "bootlaces".

 

You sound like an articulate, rational and level-headed person (all very good points in a potential collector of Nihonto) and, regardless of not being able to afford a real Japanese katana yet, you should continue in the manner you've begun.

 

By this, I mean asking questions, researching the different manufacturing techniques and reading as much as you can (both on-line and on paper).

 

I'm pretty lucky because I live in Japan now and can look at as many good blades as I want but, before I moved here, I regularly visited any museum that had even a meagre display of Japanese swords and just about every military antique dealer and arms fair in the UK. By doing this and by handling the real thing as often as possible, you'll soon learn to tell fake from genuine and, eventually, good from poor.

 

One day you'll be able to afford that first Nihonto, and if you've done your research diligently enough (and you sound like the kind of person who will) then you should end up with a good one (unlike some of the complete "ponies" I bought in my early days of collecting as the only book readily available was John Yumoto's and the internet was still a nerd's wet-dream).

 

All the very best,

 

Simon

 

PS/ For the non-UK members, "Pony" is cockney rhyming slang: "Pony and Trap" = crap.

[Bungo]

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkohoudo

 

#3 seems to have some " possibility "............

signed and dated, no less...............at least it's not a Bungo :lol:

Bizen Osafune Kiyo (ops, got cut off ).............

 

cheap enough.............

 

milt the ronin