From 'Tokubetsu Kicho paper' to 'Hozon'

[Jean]

Eric,

 

FYI, toranba hamon:

 

http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/a424.htm

[Dr Fox]

Geraint

 

Could not agree more, With all the considered advice given, there is compelling evidence for me to agree. At point of purchase, re-sale was not on my priority list, in fact I was acting on advice even then. Mr Clive Sinclair, had already warned me, that a purchase of a sword as an investment was unwise, but to study, see many blades, and to then buy what pleases me. This is exactly what I did, and I do enjoy the sword.( isn't that the purpose anyway?)

 

I am richer in mind and pocket, due to the reasoning from the board, I thank all who contributed.

 

Regards Denis.

[Soshin]

Hi David

 

And from me welcome.

 

I look forward to viewing you photos, as it means another sighting of a Kanetane hamon, I am trying to ascertain if there is another Kanetane that is similar to the blade I have. If you have not seen it my ref is:

Name the Hamon. Dr Fox. 3 May 2012.

 

Regards Denis.

 

Hi Denis,

 

After spending the evening looking for information and organizing some of my Nihonto related information from the NBTHK I was not able to find any information on it electronic or otherwise. I was very upset and regretful with myself for selling this Nihonto that I didn't leave any records having had it include photos or a write up. Now the only thing that remains of the Nihonto is in my memories. I sold it to a collector in Chicago so maybe I'll see it at the Chicago Japanese Sword Show in a few years.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Dr Fox]

David

 

Thanks anyway, for your offer of help.

 

Cheers Denis.

[Lee Bray]

This also applies to Lee and his case, and with the noted discrepancies, would Lee have any sympathy, which would allow him to re-submit and get a better result? or is there not an appeal procedure?

 

I have no problem with the modern NBTHK system and have happily sent in swords for hozon papers but resubmitting the Shigetaka would be pointless as it is gimei.

Removing the mei is an option but not a cheap one, especially with both sides of the nakago needing to be worked on.

 

As it is, I'll keep it as a good example of why you buy the sword, not the papers.

[Jean]

http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/a407.htm

 

Juyo Echizen Kanetane

[Geraint]

Lovely sword, Jean. Is that a vote for Denis to resubmit his blade?

[Dr Fox]

Guys how best to put this?

 

From my first post on this subject, (What is this hamon) I took away the impression that the term 'Toranba-Midare' was a description of the hamon on my nihonto. Chris Bowen on that forum made his judgement, and to be fair to you Chris, it was an indicator to me, that I know nothing about hamon, and their descriptive styles.

 

But now, Eric provides examples of toranba hamon, Jean steps in with another example, and guess what? from several examples, I can clearly see now, how the term 'toranba applies as a hamon.

 

The toranba seems to be a vivid, undulating and unbroken style, from nakago to kissaki. (Please excuse my uneducated view). I don't want to sidetrack this thread back to 'What is this hamon" But what have I got? Have I got a nihonto with a toranba midare hamon? Because I can't see it! If it can't possibly be Kanetane, and just a stab in the dark, then whether I re-sumit to Shinsa or not, I have a doubtful attribution.

 

The term toranba-midare was termed to me as 'crashing waves" When I first looked at my sword, it looked like billowing clouds, and I am still up in the air. You gentlemen have enough experience, and expertise, to be able to say.

I think this!!!!!!!

 

Regards

Denis.

[Dr Fox]

To all who contributed to this thread and for your PM's. I thank you for your well measured posts, it gave me adequate advice, and allowed me to make an informed decision on the original question.

Best regards.

Denis.

[cabowen]

Toran-ba is a rather continuous undulation. Your blade has nearly a suguba between groups of gunome-midare packed tightly together and I would therefore not call it a toran-ba.

[Dr Fox]

Chris

 

I have re-read you comments on the original post, and here now, I am a little smug that my analysis of Toranba Midare was confirmed by you.

 

I thank you for your patience, I have learnt a lot about a very difficult subject, but my biggest lesson is: Don't push for answers on a subject, that you know little about, because the response, will never make sense!

 

Regards

Denis.

 

Teaching a pig to sing, is a no no! it won't work, and it confuses the hell out of the pig.

[cabowen]

Not sure we are on the same page here...I do not think your blade has a typical toran-ba.....

[J Reid]

Jean,

 

If you don't mind me asking..

 

>>> http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/a424.htm <<<<

 

Who made these swords??? They are identical to my kanenaka. I wish I could read Japanese.. :|

 

Thanks!

 

Josh

[J Reid]

sukehiro?

[J Reid]

LOL nevermind.. Google translator helped me out. I also just realised that it is only the one sword.

 

Disregard my trigger finger posts. haha

 

Josh

[Dr Fox]

Guys how best to put this?

 

From my first post on this subject, (What is this hamon) I took away the impression that the term 'Toranba-Midare' was a description of the hamon on my nihonto. Chris Bowen on that forum made his judgement, and to be fair to you Chris, it was an indicator to me, that I know nothing about hamon, and their descriptive styles.

 

But now, Eric provides examples of toranba hamon, Jean steps in with another example, and guess what? from several examples, I can clearly see now, how the term 'toranba applies as a hamon.

 

The toranba seems to be a vivid, undulating and unbroken style, from nakago to kissaki. (Please excuse my uneducated view). I don't want to sidetrack this thread back to 'What is this hamon" But what have I got? Have I got a nihonto with a toranba midare hamon? Because I can't see it! If it can't possibly be Kanetane, and just a stab in the dark, then whether I re-sumit to Shinsa or not, I have a doubtful attribution.

 

The term toranba-midare was termed to me as 'crashing waves" When I first looked at my sword, it looked like billowing clouds, and I am still up in the air. You gentlemen have enough experience, and expertise, to be able to say.

I think this!!!!!!!

 

Regards

Denis.

 

Chris

 

I should have added this quote of mine from a few posts previous! "Have I got a nihonto with a toranba midare hamon? Because I can't see it!" This is where I believed I had a similar conclusion from you. Is this not the case?

 

Regards

Denis.

[Jean]

Josh,

 

The translation is just under the Japanese kanji Tsuda Echizen no kami Suke Hiro

[cabowen]

 

Chris

 

I should have added this quote of mine from a few posts previous! "Have I got a nihonto with a toranba midare hamon? Because I can't see it!" This is where I believed I had a similar conclusion from you. Is this not the case?

 

Regards

Denis.

 

In my opinion, no, it is not a classic toran-ba as stated earlier. If you can't see a toran-ba, then we are in agreement.

[Dr Fox]

Chris

 

What I cannot see in my blade, is any similarity to the hamon Toranba, shown to me by members. I, understanding that my knowledge in this field is zero. Said on the 1st November, that =Toranba was: a vivid, undulating, unbroken style.

Your post on the 6 November =Toranba is: a rather continuous undulation.

 

So my point was! that we agreed descriptively, on the hamon appearance of Toranba.

And to follow your last point: No! I cannot relate to Toranba in my blade. Then it would seem we have a two point agreement.

 

It is of some importance to me, to have a hamon description, it is relevant to the swords identity. So for the present your submission is what I will use, should anyone not agree, then we are off to the races again.

 

I am prepared to accept this style could be unusual, but surely not unique?

 

Regards

Denis.