Which blade(s) are showa-to? ANSWERS HERE NOW

[cabowen]

Here is a little game called "spot the showa-to". Who wants to play? Just have a look and identify the blades that you think are showa-to, if any. Maybe our showa-to expert Jacques will play too!

 

Showa-to is a rather loosely used term for any non-traditionally made blade made during WWII. Usually they are made of western steel and oil quenched. There aren't any water quenched, western steel blades, and few if any oil quenched tamahagane blade. Some western steel blades were partially forged, but these are rather rare, as are other varieties, like the Mantetsu, etc. For this, just identify anything you think is non-traditionally made...

1.

 

2.

 

3.

 

4.

 

5.

 

6.

[cabowen]

7.

 

8.

 

9.

 

10.

 

11.

[Stu W]

This will be a fantastic learning tool for those less experienced such as myself so could members please elaborate as to what it is that they see and base their opinions.

 

Thank you.

 

Regards,

Stu

PS: I should add that I learnt quite a bit from all the replies to my Star stamp question on the other thread and greatly appreciate those of you who took the time to expand upon the "why" of your respective positions. Thank you.

[Lance]

I'll say maybe 2 and 7 (koa-isshin? or I'm wrong and one or both are Yasukuni) and definitely number 9 (Seki). Should be fun even if incorrect.. Due to the limited pictures it might be more fair to say "X" out of 11 pics is a Showato?

Regards,

Lance

[george trotter]

Chris,

I know...they are all showato!

I know this because none have a NBTHK paper.

 

Just trying to save time...

[Stu W]

Well I guess they indeed could all be Showato because any sword made in the Showa era would be a Showato. I'm assuming though that the question was asked on the basis that Showato is being used in the common manner of Nihonto enthusiast to indicate a non traditionally made blade. Correct?

 

Regards.

Stu

[cabowen]

Who said none were NBTHK papered????

 

Yes, the usual definition of "showa-to" is a non-traditionally made blade from the Showa (war) era. Not a nihon-to and not allowed into Japan.

[sanjuro]

this is not my area of greatest comfort, but to play the game, my guess..... 5,6, 8,9,10. are showato

 

Hada is the secret......... Possibly the secret to making a 100% error in this case. :D

[almeister]

Good game Chris ,

Some of the pics aren't the best on my little notebook ,

However my call would be - 2,5,8,9

Cheers , AlanK

[Toryu2020]

I am also inclined to believe they are all Showa-to

 

If I had to say 5 and 8 do not seem to show nie (in the images) and so may be made in the era but not with 100% traditional materials or production.

 

mho anyway...

-t

[Tcat]

2, 5 (not sure about 6 ) ,7, 8 and 9

[paulb]

Using the non traditonally made definition of Showato I would go for nos 4 5 8 and 9 as being Showato

Like Tom I think they are were all made in the Showa period.

Reasons:

The other swords exhibit either a lot of nie or a more complex nioi with a lot of activity within the hamon.

Although sword 4 shows odd patches of nie it appear accidental rather than intended. I saw something similar on a blade that was attributed as oil quenched in an NTHK shinsa.

5, 8 and 9 show little life in the hamon and not much going on in the hada.

Having said all the above I believe it is difficult enough making these judgements sword in hand. doing it from a partial image increases the challenge considerably so I am far from confident in my choices.

Regards

Paul

[george trotter]

Who said none were NBTHK papered????

 

I said they were all showato "because none had a NBTHK paper"...maybe I should have said "because none had a NBTHK paper visible"...(I was trying out Jacques' logic system that nothing can be nihonto without a NBTHK paper being seen)....looks like I didn't get it quite right, sorry, this was my first try... :lol:

Regards,

[kunitaro]

Good morning.

Fan game !

 

i think no.9

if more than one.

then no.8 or no.1 !?!

[huntershooter]

3, 8, 9.

Fun exercise, but difficult with a single photo...

[estcrh]

From a quick glance at least #9, it looks oil quenched.

[george trotter]

Well back to reality...a couple of pics make it hard to see , but going mainly on hada being present and hamon nie and ko-nie, my previous experience would say to me that all are nihonto except possibly # 5 and #9. (Edit to correct: I meant... I meant #.

Regards,

BTW...this is a bit of a tangent, but I had the fun today to examine and identify a very nice gunto mounted Kawashima Tadayoshi shodai dated Oct 1940...nagashi lines were 20...only problem was nakago was quite rusted...bordering on rotten, but a nice 2 mil yen smith.

[cabowen]

I know it is difficult from the limited, and in some cases, poor photos, but give it a shot!

[drjoe]

i love that there is no consensus!

 

i'm just an ignorant newbie, but i'll guess 1, 5, 9, 10.

 

and possibly 4, 6, and 8 as well.

[Mark]

i vote for 5, 6, 9, 10.

[bluboxer]

1,4,5,6,8,.9,10 are Showa-to (maybe!)

[kunitaro]

re-confirmation...

 

Showa-to is meaning "Mono steel and oil quinched blade".

 

correct ???

[Veli]

Nice game indeed!

 

I am going to make a fool out of myself but never mind: 1,5,6,10 are showato.

 

Edit: by 10 I mean 10.jpg = 9 by number.

 

Veli

[Brian]

Acknowledging how imperfect this is from limited pics, but using this as a fun exercise...

I would say 9 and 5. After that, I am hesitant in also including 4 and 8...with 1 as a last possibility.

 

Brian

[J Reid]

1,4,5,8,9,10 maybe.. Sometimes showato look like they have hamon and hada, but really its just the oil hamon and ji natural pattern under lighting.

 

 

 

josh

[Jiro49]

5 and 9

[David Flynn]

5,8 and 10

[SwordGuyJoe]

Maybe 5, 8 and 10 but could be the pics

DEFINITELY 9

[Peter Bleed]

I have arrived late and had to wade through all of those other "guesses" before I have been able to cast these 'correct' answers.

Showa era blades include 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10

Non-Showa-to are 2, 11, and 8

In the "No clue category", I'd put 7 and 9.

 

Hey, wait a minute, I think I want to think about this a bit more....

Peter

[dwmc]

All may be Showa era blades....

 

Blade 5 appears to be hantanto gunto bar stock.

 

Blade 8 possibly Koa Isshin.

 

Regards,

 

Dwmc