help with sword

[zatoichi]

I was looking at this sword on eBay. It has sold now and I was looking for some help in understanding things that I did not see. some things looked off to me,on the picture of the sword Kissaki the yokote doesn't line up. Hi not parallel to mune. Ends of hi shaped differently. Horimono goes over shinogi. Are these signs of bad workmanship that should not be seen on a blade by this caliber smith? Blade was said to be done by Bishu osafune sakyo yasumitsu. I believe the hamon is also not the style that this smith is known for. But maybe every smith needs a change sometimes. I will thank all now for any help they may give. Just trying to learn from people who know a lot more than me.

Justin E

[Jean]

Justin,

 

Was the blade papered?

 

The mei is not common for the smith

 

The hi+bonji on both sides are typical for Oei Bizen, Yasumitsu is also famed for his suguha hamon.

kissaki seems to be off. Now the blade is off polish, so difficult to say anything about the hada which is typical in Oei Bizen, especially with Yasumitsu.

 

I am not a fan of the suguta, of the horimono and of the kissaki ...

 

 

You will find on Aoi-Art and Nihonto.com some example of Yasumitsu and Morimitsu blades

[kunitaro]

as Jean san said already

 

Signature is not good (Gimei)

Sugata is not Oei Bizen.

Hada is not Oei Bizen,

Suguha is OK, but, Boshi is not Yasumitsu.

 

Japanese Dealer or collector will never sell Genuine signature without HOZON paper.

or They can guarantee Hozon with high (reasonable) price.

[Curran]

I remember this from ebay.

 

Didn't think the hada that far off from Oei Bizen that I have seen.

Did not look too long, once I decided the signature was not correct. There is a papered one on Nihonto.com that you can use for comparison.

 

The one on Nihonto.com has also seen a lot of polishes, so the kissaki geometry has something to tell you.

[kunitaro]

This hada is itame-nagareru, almost masame near ha.

Oei bizen is beauty of mokume hada with chikei. (oei-moku) and bo-utsuri.

 

and Boshi.....

want to see pointed boshi or ko-maru and little kaeri.

this one has O-maru and long kaeri...

[Curran]

You are correct about the little kaeri.

[zatoichi]

found some more pictures of a yasumitsu blade. this one has a different mei. the hi is maru-dome not kaku-dome. the horimono is much further over the shinogi. It does have the same suguha hamon. Just trying to understand what I am seeing.This blade was NBTHK Hozon. Did smiths really stay so close to a style over there working life? If so why was it so ridged?

Justin E

[kunitaro]

The Blade is tried.

many polished

where did you find ??

[Jean]

My TH Yasumitsu Tachi:

[kunitaro]

Good example !

 

This is called Oei-Moku (Mokume hada of Oei Bizen)

as you see, Mokume-hada near ha as well.

When you see carefully, Shinogi-ji is also itame-mokume hada,

Which is meaning The Smith hummered almost all shape by hummer, not much filing.

That is why all mokume stay.

when you polish a lot, hada become Nagareru (getting to more masame)

 

Jean san,

 

Could you please show Kissaki (Boshi) photo ?

[Jean]

I must find one or take one, Kunitaro san

[Jean]

Here we go, sorry a bit fuzzy:

[Jean]

This one is perhaps better, small kaeri

[kunitaro]

Thank you very much.

Yes, This is Typical Yasumitsu's Boshi.

hamon of Boshi is Suguha but, still a bit notare.. and pointed, and kaeri(turn back) not long.

or there is other style, with Gunome hamon, Midare-komi, ko-maru, little kaeri.

That is The Midokoro (View point) of Yasumitsu, Morimitsu

 

also see a lot of Hataraki in ha.

 

mmmmm,,,,, Nice sword !!!!

[Jean]

It is the suguta copy of an early Kamakura tachi with a lovely ko kissaki; this kind of swords are not uncommon with Yasumitsu but very rarely seen on the market because very sought after. Yasumitsu tachi (ubu) are very rare to find for sale compared with Wakisashi and tanto. The bo utsuri tends to disappear on long swords.

[kunitaro]

And This photo of Kissaki.

you can see clear Mokume hada at Shinogi-ji.

(Mino-den or Shinto are Masame hada)

 

This beautiful (oei-bizen) Mokume Hada is different from Shinshinto or Gendai-to which is used different material to show hada(damascus).

Oei-Bizen's mokume hada(Chikei) is by hammering technique, high quality Tamahagane and Yakiire activity.

You can not see 100% of this by Photo. you must see it in your hand through good light.

Also, by Polish...

[zatoichi]

Kunitaro san,

Is it true for all swords when polished to much for the hada to become nagareru? Is this just true for swords that are hammered more than filed? Is the quality of more hataraki in hamon something that distinguishes a better quality sword? It is something that I find captivating and ethereal.

Justin E

[kunitaro]

Justin san,

It is not true for all swords when polished to much for the hada to become nagareru.

ko Itame hada masame hada hashiji hada, etc.,

Also, you can not say that Kokume hada is better than Itame hada,

Of cause, The sword is made by hammer more than filed.

Each school has their own concept and style. and Hataraki also has quality.

so, not only more Hataraki(looks like) is better sword....

not that simple...also, you can not just remember some knowledge..you better to think and confirm by yourself.

Knowledge is nothing if you don't understand.

That is why, need to see a good sword for study.

Good sword is meaning that Original healthy good condition piece.

Original is meaning that knowing what it is. the best way is Genuine Signed blade. so, you know who made it.

Healthy and good condition is meaning, close to brand new...then you can see more original activity.

so, you can learn what is original, what is good.

if you learn what is bad from 10 of un-known un-healthy, manipulated blades, but, still you don't know what is good one....

 

Make sense ?

I am not talking about watching sword on internet though, sword in you hand.

[Jiro49]

I love the jigane! You can loose yourself in it...

 

I'm envious!

[Curran]

This one has a little more kaeri:

http://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1206-W05.html

 

Yes, Yasumitsu is the best. Good tachi by him are rare and expensive.

 

However, I think some Iesuke works surpass that of Morimitsu. I have seen an Iesuke naginata that was on par with the best Yasumitsu work.

I have always liked Jean's elegant Yasumitsu.

 

Just for fun, I have uploaded some pictures of other nice Yasumitsu that I have in my records.

[runagmc]

Jean, is this your sword?

[Toryu2020]

You know if I saw pictures of Jean's sword before looking at swords on eBay I would likely never buy anything for sale there.

 

Brian - are you listening? Wouldn't it be nice to collect somewhere here comparison photos say of gimei/shoshin and papered examples like this next to dubious examples like the one from the listing/link?

 

Right now if I want to see and compare examples I have to troll by smiths name - I think only a few examples would be needed and it could be titled "Look here before you eBay Baybay!" or something to that effect...

-t

[John A Stuart]

I like that idea. It would be labour intensive. Alphabetised and searchable. I know some people have things like that in their own data bases and some public sites have rudimentary types of this available. Can you imagine what a fantastic reference it would be when collated with, say, Marcus' new index. John

[Jean]

Hi Adam, it is almost its twin. Mine has 3 mekugi ana.

 

Have you got the link, it looks like Ginza Choshuya pictures?

 

Have you got high res pictures of this sword? If yes can you mail them to me, I'll be interested in seeing the nakago/mei?

[kunitaro]

The position of mekugi-ana of this Tachi is a bit too high(close to Hamachi).

i think that is 2nd Ana. Original is lower (maybe plugged, like Jean san's)

the fist Ana was for Tachi, and 2nd Ana is for Katana.

however, Ubunakago, look at the beaufitul Funbari.

[runagmc]

Jean- I assume by Daniel you meant Adam L. (which would be my name)... Yes, the pics were off of Ginza Choshuya... Sorry, I don't have the link or any more pics... Do you have a pic of suguta of your tachi?

 

Kunitaro san- I agree. If you look close, there appears to be a plugged ana below the open one...

 

Curran- here's a beautiful hira-zukuri wakizashi similar to the one you posted... this is one of my favorite wakizashi I have seen...

 

BTW, the horimono on the shinogi-zukuri wakizashi Curran posted looks amazing... I don't think I've seen anything like it on a Yasumitsu before...

[Eric H]

Yasumitsu and Morimitsu - Oei Bizen

Yasumitsu‘s hamon is generally suguha, Morimitsu‘s hamon is generally Choji midare. A kantei point is the shape of the pointed boshi that resembles the flame of a candle, often seen on Wakizashi by these tosho.

 

Eric

[Toryu2020]

Doesn't have to be time consuming -

 

Start a new thread, call it "By Comparison" - post Jean's Yasumitsu and the eBay pretender. Let folks draw their own conclusions, add new photos as they come up. I think we had a good example of a dubious Naotane not too long ago. Might not be too hard to find those photos for comparison...

-t

[Curran]

Adam,

 

I believe I remember that Yasumitsu. It was in Ginza-Choshuya magazine late 2007 or early 2008.

I didn't have the money free for it, but I tried to buy it the second I saw it. However, Choshuya said it was already sold.

 

Price was very fair. I thought it a bargain for such a Yasumitsu.

In modern 'austerity', I cannot afford a Yasumitsu or Morimitsu tachi. Therefore I look for maybe an exceptional wakizashi by Yasumitsu, Morimitsu, or Iesuke.

Yes, the horimono on that Yasumitsu wakizashi was outstanding.... but that wak was also priced about $50,000 when the USD was much stronger. Special wak.

 

Yasumitsu often have horimono, but not as much as Oei Nobukuni. Still, Oei period seems popular for certain types of horimono.

Here is another Yasumitsu tachi (w/ horimono) to envy: http://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1208-K02.html

[Jean]

Sorry , I meant Adam, second time I call you Daniel, something must be cooking in my heat-opressed brain