Jingo tsuba

[Ron STL]

Attached photo is of a very strong and beautiful Jingo tsuba thought to be the work of Jingo II. It measures 84 mm x 80 mm x 4 mm. While I do treasure this tsuba I must admit my weakness with Jingo tsuba. That said, any comments from Jingo connoisseurs are welcomed. Interestingly, the omote shows a 16 petal chrysanthemum while the ura shows a 12 petal one. Possible kantei point?

 

One immediate question...what is a name for the repetitive design framing the tsuba? I wanted to say "key fret" but that's different.

 

Ron STL

[Curran]

Best people to ask are in England or Japan. I'll point one of them at it, but he may be slow to respond.

I'm confident with 3rd, 4th, 5th gen and some of the students.... but don't feel knowledgeable enough to comment with conviction on earlier pieces.

 

Please post a photo of the other side, if you have one.

[Toryu2020]

Ron -

Your question brings up a question asked at a recent meeting of the NCJSC: it seems a number of these pieces were produced by the Jingo artists. Some fresh and untouched, others obviously distressed and obviously artificially aged. These may be seen even in the fine volumes by Ito, but I do not believe they are fully explained. Does anyone know why this theme was seemingly so popular and why the Jingo artists would heave done different versions?

 

any help appreciated,

-t

[Ron STL]

Curran, here is a quick shot of the reverse side of the Jingo tsuba as you requested. Sorry for the less-than-perfect photography, but it'll serve its purpose. Looking at this tsuba and others in the books that have the "hole" in them, it's interesting to note that these are actually out-of-round and made slightly angled (so that looking straight down at them, they lean ever so slightly left to right). On Sasano's illustrated tsuba this hole is called a "water drop," understandably so on that particular tsuba. Just an interesting observation.

 

I would had gone to Les Dorfman with the Jingo questions but I believe he has already headed to Japan for a pre-DTI vacation. My tsuba was examined by Mr. Kawabata a couple years ago which is where the Jingo II call most likely came from. I need to study more on Jingo; reading on the school, it seems confusing for me to grasp a good understanding of it. Of course it doesn't help that classic examples are difficult to study in-hand.

 

Ron STL

[Curran]

Dr. Dorfman would be my favorite person in the USA to discuss Shimizu/Jingo.

 

You are correct on slanted "water drop holes". I've attached an image that shows this. I have seen examples where this wasn't true, but it might have been for other design reasons. The straight through ones were all late 3rd or early 4th gen work.

 

As to rarity and studying them in person, yes Jingo are the ones that seem hardest to photograph and its only in hand / in person that the whole thing hits you. Often I find paintings (such as Klimt's) are more pleasant in images or photos than real life. Jingo tsuba are the exact opposite. You've got to see them in person. ~~~~~Though one NYC area collector has a fine first gen f/k to study, I just haven't gotten to see enough of the 1st and 2nd gen to feel confident attributing them. A friend has a 1st gen and a 3rd gen that is nearly an identical copy. He explains the differences in quality of the silver zogan and other things so minute that you must see them to understand. I don't understand yet, and may take a little international sabbatical next spring to get a better crash course into Higo works.

 

Thanks for posting that second image. I'm a little surprised the silver is as bright as that. It often oxidizes heavily on the Jingo. I will forward a link. It may take a week or so before he replies.

[Ron STL]

Curran, I'm glad you also noticed the oddly made "hole" on these tsuba. I can only think the maker was feeling very "creative" about this when he made these, all part of what creates art over simply "a tsuba."

 

You are correct about the silver wire being particularly bright. I feel confident (knowning where the tsuba came from) that nothing was "polished," so it must be the silver make-up of the wire that it did not patinate dark. By the way, my question about the gold zogan pattern around this tsuba, I found an example in "Tsuba, An Aesthetic Study," p. 166, where it is called "squared half-chain (pattern)" by Haynes. I'll go with that for my records.

 

Ron STL

[Michael 101]

Hi Ron,

 

It looks a very nice tsuba indeed.

 

The polished look of the iron and the evidence for yakite treatment (think of it as being placed back into the oven to bake and melt a little) is very pleasing as are the proportions.

 

Design - the outer gold inlay is a pattern described by Ito Mitsuhira as being the Kaminari mon - used more by the 3rd and 4th generation onwards from observations.

 

The silver inlay is in the design of the Chrysanthemum a very popular design used by all generations and many other schools too. I think the silver has at some time been polished and I personally feel would benefit from a natural dulling in time.

 

My own guess without seeing it in hand would be 3rd generation - I base this mainly on the style of the dote mimi, the finish to the iron and the use of the Kaminari design - but it could easily be second as he did do some large works of this design - its just the outer inlay that puts me off this generation (it may I suppose have been added later as a design update but less likely)

 

Kind regards

Michael

[Curran]

I gladly defer to Michael.

He and Les are the best Jingo collectors in the west that I know.

 

Ron, after your last post I looked at the books and some files I've been building over the years. I associated the outer chain pattern with 3rd gen or later, though i've mostly seen it in silver or silver inlay. Between that and the thinness, I intially thought 3rd Gen. Then seeing your second image, I wondered if it is late second gen.

 

Michael, any insight on ways to distinquish between 2nd and 3rd gen?

[Michael 101]

2nd / 3rd Shimizu generations - the difference in generations well thats a really tough question - which to be honest Im not so sure anyone could answer - and certainly not by me.

 

The actual physical dates make it tough to start with: 2nd 1620-1710 and the 3rd 1691-1777 - so by iron age itself is very difficult to tell.

Some third generation works have round notches to the top and bottom corners of the nakago ana - but this was also done in the later generations so its little help.

 

Also Shimizu Jingo were very traditional and made copies of the earlier masters work to the best of their ability. There is also much confusion even in Japan to the differing generations - and reading the translations of the key expert in this field Ito Mitsuhira - even he hedges his bets on many of the tsuba published in his book in terms of which generations work they are.

 

Im slowly coming to the conclusion that the 1st generation works can be distiguished (although some may be early 2nd - so its still not clear cut !!) - the others seem to only to group like 2nd/3rd or 4th/5th - and even many of the 5th masters work has been taken for 3rd master - so its a minefield !

 

Kind regards

 

Michael

[Ron STL]

Some very good informatin contributed here, indeed. It's no wonder some confusion, or should I say lack of a "black and white" answers, persist with Jingo works. With the case of my tsuba it would seem more appropriated to say 2nd or 3rd and leave it at that. My plan is to include this tsuba as one of my selection for the 2013 KTK catalogue, my reason for trying to describe it with some knowledge while not embarrasing myself. Again, great imput here, guys!

 

Ron STL

[Akitombo]

Great information guys.

Has anybody examples of 1st Generation tsuba?

David

[Pete Klein]

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... 26-shimizu

 

This is the book you need to see excellent examples of Shimizu and Hikozo. (the price listed is for the three book set). It usually goes for around $450/500.

[raiden]

my idea of early jingo. signed nidai

[Michael 101]

Hi Mike,

 

Just to clarify do you mean nidai as in second Jingo master i.e. third Shimizu. Reason for my question is Ito's books on the subject state that the 2nd Shimizu didnt sign his works.

 

I also note the enlarged round shape to the top of the Nakago ana, would under Ito's view place this as third Shimizu.

 

Sorry to complicate things !

 

A really lovely tsuba by the way.

 

Kind regards

Michael

[Ed]

I thoroughly enjoyed this thread, it is great to read useful information and see examples of quality work.

 

It would be great if any others have good photos of their Jingo tsuba to share.

 

Posts like these are what the NMB is supposed to be about ! It is such a welcome break from write ups and photos of low end / e-bay fodder presented for our viewing pleasures and comments.

 

Thanks to all.

[Curran]

Nidai Jingo ala~ 3rd Gen Shimizu. That +1 shift.

Many of us here just refer to it as Shimizu gen 2 thru 5 = Jingo 2 thru 5. Bad habit of ours. Should be Shimizu 2 thru 5 = Jingo 1 thru 4.

Ron's is probably late Jingo 1 or early Jingo 2. * Note also variation in Japanese writing Jingo between Jingo 1 & 2. Maybe Mike or Michael can illustrate that.

 

Mike's tsuba design seems really popular with Nidai Jingo (3rd Shimizu). This is the 4th example of this one I have seen. Anyone able to explain why Ito-san called this "thunder" or "thunder chain". I don't have his book in front of me, but have always wondered about the origin on that description.

[Michael 101]

With regards to Currans comment on the differing charactors used for Jingo - I will post two examples taken from NBTHK papers from my collection - this example is from a 1st master which is identified by the NBTHK use of the earlier second charactor (next post will show the comparison)

[Michael 101]

This example shows the later charactor used by the NBTHK to identify post 1st / 2nd master Shimizu Jingo masters

[Michael 101]

Keeping up the theme I have added a favourite little 4th Shimizu Jingo tsuba with a similar theme to the others shown above.

 

The elongated maru gata shape and the incomplete gin zogan inlay (probably as made by the artisit) really add to the overall impression and impart an austere and simple beauty. The iron quality is superb as per all mainline Shimizu works.

 

Kind regards

Michael

[raiden]

Well shodai , nidai , sandai depends who you hear from. Ito san in his words sho-nidai have no signed pieces, and the signed examples are from the 3rd. NBTHK however count from 1st as no signature, 2nd signed but with the "go" kanji different in the Jingo mei, then 3rd and later have the different kanji character for "go" than the NBTHK nidai examples. For instance, if there is an unsigned jingo attribution by the NBTHK, one can tell of they mean shodai/nidai by the way the Jingo (Go kanji) is written on the paper, or a later generation by the "go" character used to say "mumei jingo".

the signed example that I posted is a Nidai (NBTHK standard) and a rare signed example (please look at the "go" kanji and compare to a signed 3rd in the kinko meikan. It is a great tsuba and it has a hakogaki by the last Kanshiro who was, i believe the tosogu caretaker for the imperial family. This tsuba also has the original Hosokawa box as well.

just my 2 cents worth! Got a killer godai today!

[raiden]

sorry for the repeat info , forgot to refresh before writing back.