NBTHK papering and Tsuba with questionable Kin zogan mei

[Curran]

Lorenzo- Thanks for the comment. I know little of Satsuma tsuba, distinct kantei points, and how they are papered. I seem to recall that Tanobe-san was fond of them?

 

Mike's tsuba is spot on for the discussion. It is pretty much the twin of the "Nishigaki" I sold, except that it has the important difference of the Satsuma mon sukashi.

[Henry Wilson]

Nice!

[Soshin]

Higo schools in my eyes a bit over rated with so many copies and fakes

Sorry David but the problem is exactly there, you lack the eyes to judge Higo work.

 

 

Hi Lorenzo,

 

My eyes are just fine but I also don't shop on Yahoo Japan and have given up on eBay unless a friend is selling something. I said a bit. I hope you understanding the meaning of this English word in my quoted sentence. The meaning is a small quanity of something.

 

Hi Mike Y.,

 

Thanks for all of the wonderful Higo examples all which are works of fine art.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Brian]

Not so sure overrated can be quantified :lol:

Something either is..or it isn't. Kinda like being wrong. It either is, or it isn't.

Although my favorite line from "Big Bang Theory" does dispute that...

It's a little wrong to say to say a tomato is a vegetable, it's very wrong to say it's a suspension bridge

Lighten up folks, some great info in this thread, but you have to dig a bit for it.

 

Brian

[Henry Wilson]

I think fugu is totally over-rated

[christianmalterre]

HaaaaHaHaHa !!!! Henry :D

LOL! (This one is great!)

Cheers!

 

Christian

[Lorenzo]

David.

 

I'm not going to play with semantics, but as you wish to make fun of my English understanding, let's clarify. I just think your first comment about the tsuba was quite rude and out of place. Your second comment gave me the chance to reply.

 

You also introduced without reason on this topic a link to your website to promote a tsuba for sale. The tsuba presented by Curran is on another level than the "modern hirata" you are willing to sell, and yet you said:

 

After viewing the tsuba in question I would agree this tsuba don't deserve this much discussion. I am also of the opinion that I wouldn't even bother with submitting it to NBTHK shinsa IF it was in my collection because someone gave it to me as a gift.

 

Regarding Yahoo Auction.

 

I bought on Yahoo auction two nihonto papered hozon seven years ago, when it still was allowed. I bought several nice (and authentic) fittings, including Hirado F/K and a wonderful kogatana with the rokkasen poets in kebori.

You can find good things there, but you need to know how to distinguish cast pieces, garbage, fakes and so on... are you able to do that? Forgive me but your last experience with a so said higo tsuba demonstrate quite the opposite.

 

It's up to you to reply again, I won't; I'm not trying to have the topic closed, and, differently to you, I actually added some (hopefully) valuable info to the topic.

[christianmalterre]

Well?

can´t help me-do but actually feel a bit like:

[Soshin]

David.

 

I'm not going to play with semantics, but as you wish to make fun of my English understanding, let's clarify. I just think your first comment about the tsuba was quite rude and out of place. Your second comment gave me the chance to reply.

 

You also introduced without reason on this topic a link to your website to promote a tsuba for sale. The tsuba presented by Curran is on another level than the "modern hirata" you are willing to sell, and yet you said:

 

Lorenzo,

 

Words are not semantics they are what we use to communicate. The tsuba that is the topic of post isn't bad but I generally don't submit things to shinsa if I think they will fail. If you read and understand the context of the link to what I had for sale it make sense because I was referring to the great number of Higo copies much of which are of average quality.

 

In reponse to this idea that I can't tell a fake from a real tsuba because I don't buy off of Yahoo Japan. I really don't have time for this nonsense and I hope and prey you don't either. Goodbye.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Marius]

Well?

can´t help me-do but actually feel a bit like:

 

Chris, what have you taken? I want some

[Curran]

Geez- Chill a bit gentlemen.

 

David is usually one of the cooler heads on NMB.

Lorenzo is very high fluent to fully bilingual. I wish my Italian was half as fluent as his English. He just happens to disagree with you David.

 

Higo ranges from some incredible work to lots of derivative crap that is more Chinatown knockoff "Prado" than actual Prada.

My friend and others specialize in Higo tsuba in what is already a very specialized area of collecting. I don't want to follow the herd and have actively resisted liking Higo, but some of the softmetal work and Jingo iron pieces are just too seductive.

____________________________

 

Yahoo!Japan: as shill bidding is not prohibited and time extends when there is a new bid, many/most auctions are shilled now. Sellers like Fuji_5005 or Fuji_505 are notoriously blatant. Expect to usually pay more for an item on Yahoo!Japan than you will in the US. Also, the number of fakes or moderns have risen significantly. Other sellers do some ridiculous things.

However, some rare items do make their way onto Yahoo!Japan. They are worth watching for, and sometimes can be had at a fair price. They can be fuzzy photo gambles or things so rare that the average collector doesn't recognize them. A large shibuichi Nambokuchu tachi tsuba with 8 medallions per side in very good condition recently sold there. Beautiful to see and I wonder if it will materialize on Boris' site at some future date.

[Curran]

Yes... I agree with Mariusz.

 

Is that the man's real head, or the head of Fredricke Neitchze on a paunchy yet limber fellow?

[Marius]

Higo ranges from some incredible work to lots of derivative crap that is more Chinatown knockoff "Prado" than actual Prada.

My friend and others specialize in Higo tsuba in what is already a very specialized area of collecting. I don't want to follow the herd and have actively resisted liking Higo, but some of the softmetal work and Jingo iron pieces are just too seductive. .

 

Curran,

 

I guess we could say that about most of successful schools - they have been aspired to, imitated, faked etc...

 

Look at Yamakichibei, Nobuie, Kaneie or Goto. The number of cheap knock-offs is astounding.

 

I can also imagine that with Yahoo auctions it is the same story as with eBay - you have to dig for months or years in this heap of crap to find something worthwhile. I have only glanced a few times at Yahoo - whatever is decent in terms of tsuba (and I don't say excellent) costs in excess of JPY 100-150k. For that money, why bother with Yahoo?

[christianmalterre]

Curran,

 

That´s me!-God did not bless me with beauty(confession)-i but feel FREEEEEE....

LOL!

 

Christian

[Brian]

You guys are going to be the cause of my nervous breakddwn oneday. I really should get paid to sit through this daily :lol:

It's important to realize that people on every single forum on the net are always going to argue. The sign of the better ones is that they don't take it personally, and are able to move on and get over it.

Let's try that more shall we?

 

Brian

[Curran]

My breakdown will be the US stock market.

Our Fed just turned on the printing presses again, so our US$ is going to hell.

 

It was nice collecting foreign art while I could afford it.... *sigh*

USA for sale. USA for sale. We're going cheap on a global currency scale.

[raiden]

you just gotta know where to shop and its not on yahoo!

[Curran]

To me that is absolutely lovely.

 

I would trade my Kanshiro, 2 Hayashi, and Jingo for it- but don't think I have enough cash for the difference.

Kill me softly, why don't you....

 

Brian, sorry for the profanity- but gotta say Hot Damn.

[christianmalterre]

Curran,

 

speaking honestly-it´s rather an matter of TIMING than an matter of Cash!

I do think we both already did follow the market long enough so to take our´s "baggage"+ into this direction...Not?

Don´t be that timid please...you gotta Tsuba i´d cut one of mine "last remaining" both Hands for it...(Laugh!)

(forgot to )

Christian

[Curran]

Christian,

 

Ah I may hit heavy in the Owari camps, but I am a "light-middleweight" when it comes to Higo.

Mike just knocked my Higo arse out of the ring.

 

Makes me want to work harder so I can afford the bigger toys, but Ben Bernanke betrayed us today and a future children's college fund may trump me ever getting to own one of these topline Hirata.

[christianmalterre]

Same with me here Curran!

Mine "topline Hirata" calls "Enzan-Matsu"(Enzan no Ki no Ko)-(And Yees,again one of that Yagyu again)(maybe out of topic?)-but generally speaking-Verdammt!-who is this sailor navigating us both here!(LOL!)

 

Mine personal conclusion-as your´s youngster seems to afford "equal dedication" like mine here...I do same like you...but maybe someday in future???

 

!

 

Me

[Pete Klein]

 

Thank you Mike! (you too Cyrus)!!!

[christianmalterre]

as seemingly nobody wages so to comment on Pete´s Tsuba here...

 

i just "wage" so to give an personal comment:

 

WELL DONE IN EVERY ASPECT!-(nothing to add,let´s have an nice discussion together when we shall meet! !!!

[Pete Klein]

I concure absolutely!

 

PS: I also wish I still smoked a pipe...! LOL

[Curran]

Hirata:

 

Question to Mike and Peter.

On the Hirata tsuba Mike displayed, the classic Hirata cup marks around the nakago have some loss of the black lacquer revealing what looks like red lacquer underneath.

On my Hirata, there is the same black lacquer in the sukashi with some loss revealing what appears to be red lacquer underneath.

On Peter's the black lacquer seems to not have suffered much loss, so:

 

Peter: (Q1) Do you see any signs of red lacquer underneath the black in the Hirata cup marks around the nakago ana on yours?

Mike and Peter: (Q2) Is the use of red lacquer frequent in the works of the first and/or second generation Hirata? Or is it a trait of a specific generation? Or just something seen once in a while?

[Pete Klein]

Curran -- no red seen nor on any I can locate with pictures. It might be just that one. Mike has seen many more in hand so he would know better than I.

 

PS: sell the house for the difference.

[raiden]

Curran,

just to be sure before I answer, can we see a pic of your tsuba and a pic of your seppa dai?

\Mike

[christianmalterre]

Hmmmh?

(this seems to get an nice threat here )

Very interesting in fact....at least for mineself.

 

reading Urushi No Waza(the publication by Heckmann)may answer some of those above answers/rather(?)questions(if we do speak of an those times common applied workmanship).

Did you seriously study this very delicate field before?

 

Christian

[Curran]

Red lacquer is not in the seppa dai.

Red lacquer is under black lacquer in the sukashi.

 

This is nidai, not shodai.

Peter says there is none in his, but reviewing photos from your website- I see what I take to be traces of it in 3 or 4 places, mostly near the nakago ana.

 

Don't ask me to illustrate. I can barely take photos.

Darcy and I have both had photos lifted from here, so I need to get a modern photo program to mark them in some way.

[Pete Klein]

Peter says there is none in his, but reviewing photos from your website- I see what I take to be traces of it in 3 or 4 places, mostly near the nakago ana.

 

Well, considering I've got it in my hand, you've got me seeing red...