christianmalterre Posted August 28, 2012 Report Posted August 28, 2012 To which group-better said artist-may i attribute this little beauty? Any Idea? Measurement is: 80mm on 3mm Christian Quote
docliss Posted August 28, 2012 Report Posted August 28, 2012 An intriguing tsuba Christian - am I correct in thinking it to be enamel on a yamagane base? If so, the enamel is very muddy and crudely applied, while such a lack of skill does not neccessarily imply early work. But why 'Namban', Peter? John L. Quote
christianmalterre Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Posted August 28, 2012 Dear John, me,too had some Kyushu work expected here-such Peter´s is acceptable for me here... Enamel,Yes-BUT GREEN? next group which does come in mind is Hazama... I but have to confess-i never ever have seen Hazama with enamel... But-LOL!-It´s a funny piece-Not? Christian Quote
Baka Gaijin Posted August 28, 2012 Report Posted August 28, 2012 Good evening Christian, Looking at the Aoi like Kamon design in the central circle at maximum magnification, the area shows hatching marks often associated with nunome zogan overlay. What does the Ura look like? I wonder if it started life as a Tsuba? Cheers Quote
christianmalterre Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Posted August 28, 2012 Dear Malcolm, thank you for leveling this out!-you are right! Those-equally can be seen on the rest of highlights of this plate,too!(especially Mimi-even here somehow amateurish?in tendence compared with ita...) I am sorry-actually this is/are is the only picture/datas i do actually have and can share...am but working in progress...-(Sorry for any eventual occuring inconveniance) Still courious....i have to confess-this one does struggle me! Christian Quote
docliss Posted August 28, 2012 Report Posted August 28, 2012 Christian, nineteenth century Yokohama work, with doro-shippō on an earlier, yamagane plate? John L. Quote
christianmalterre Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Posted August 28, 2012 John you are extremely fast! I had this idea in mind already-did head mineself(out of whatever reason?) rather into Hazama,to be honest... In fact-the point puzzeling me, is the plate itself here... IF it´s that-i wonder they did such,and not like those we generally do expect by Yokohama... Thank´s a lot!-You do solve me some crisscross in mind and i think we shall head into this direction....LOL! Christian Quote
christianmalterre Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Posted August 28, 2012 So if we all agree with Yokohama Seizaburo Goto...(?) next question... This shop/school/artist is known to be very very accurate in it´s execution... May it rather be Nagoya? Christian Quote
Ford Hallam Posted August 28, 2012 Report Posted August 28, 2012 Christian you don't have the piece in hand? What does the other side look like? Like Malcolm I have doubts this started life as a tsuba. regards, Ford Quote
Lorenzo Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 Me too I'd like to see the other side. The mon are from all over the country. It could have been a part of a beauty set or utility (mirror?) than turned into what it is now. Quote
Baka Gaijin Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 Morning all, I think the mirror/utility set origin is a good idea Lorenzo. I wonder if Ian B has any comments upon the Kamon shown in the outer rim. Are they Fudai or Tozama, or a mixture? Cheers Quote
Lorenzo Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 Among others, Kamon are from Satsuma (the cross on the circle, the two bands on the circle) Higo (the kuyomon), Takeda (central Japan), Mitsutomoe, and the one in right in the centre is the Tokugawa mon. This theme to me indicate the whole country as one, especially under Tokugawa shogunate; hence I would say it is at least a post Momoyama piece. Quote
IanB Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 My first reaction on seeing this tsuba was that the kamon represent a wide ranged of families amongst which I can recognise the Shimazu, Takeda, Ii, Matsudaira, Honda without getting the books out. The large Tokugawa kamon in the centre suggests this didn't start out as a tsuba, but was originally some other decorative item. Note how it has been modified by cutting the background away to leave the kamon in relief - this is very badly done where they are not circular or where two overlap. This is very obvious with the Honda kamon at 11.00 o'clock. I would suggest this was done so that the background could be enamelled to enhance it when it was made into a tsuba. I don't think it was done in the Meiji period as a 'Hamamono' - the sekigane and general abuse of the seppa dai both suggest it has been on a couple of swords at least. I am also intrigued by the hole at 6.00 o'clock. Perhaps that is the clue to its original purpose. Ian Bottomley Quote
Lorenzo Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 I am also intrigued by the hole at 6.00 o'clock. Perhaps that is the clue to its original purpose.Ian Bottomley I think the hole was made together with the nakago ana. One hole in that position is quite tipical as udenuki ana on higo soft metal tsuba, particularly Nishigaki (please don't think I'm implying the OP is a Nishigaki tsuba, just pointing out about 6 o'clock single hole) I don't have handy a better example piece to show, so I'm going with this one found on google, sorry. Also, regarding the OP, I don't think it's badly done. I think it is deliberately rustic in appearance. Quote
docliss Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 So if we all agree with Yokohama Seizaburo Goto …(?) Christian, that is a colossal leap of faith. There were many workers in Yokohoma who, among other techniques, utilised enamelling. This crude work is nothing like that of G. Seisaburo who, apart from his delicate and intricate use of shippō, also utilised gold cloisons, which are markedly absent in your example. John L. Quote
christianmalterre Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Posted August 29, 2012 John, this is why i did point out Nagoya as an eventual next step to examine and do research... The whole composition is much to "Crude" for Yokohama(at least of what i have seen or read) Are there any books on Tsuba available which deal into Cloisonee/Enamel specifically? Me,i don´t have or know-such i do ask.... Christian Quote
Grey Doffin Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 I've been told that there was a time when craftsmen in China, having seen Japanese swords that had been exported to China, started to make similar items (note: this isn't yesterday; I'm talking centuries ago). I've had a couple tsuba about which it was said they might have been made in China since they aren't quite real Japanese. No idea how correct any of this is but if so, might this explain the tsuba in this thread? Grey Quote
christianmalterre Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Posted August 29, 2012 Dear Grey, this may at least be an possibility! I definitely wonder if an Japanese Enamel woker(or whoever?)had let out such "Crudeness" out of his shop... Either way-thank you all for your´s input..i will have much research to do... Thanks! Christian Quote
Lorenzo Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 If you know how enamel is done, you know it's very easy to do it better. But, the apparent lack of ability strikes with the perfect mitsu tomoe among others, as well as higo zogan applied silver (? my guess for mon) on soft metal. So, or this is a multi step work made by different artisan in different times, or (my guess) this is just an aesthetic choice of the original mirror (or whatever it is) maker. C'mon Christian share the source, show the ura or shut up :D (friendly said of course) Quote
docliss Posted August 29, 2012 Report Posted August 29, 2012 Christian, in reply to your enquiry: Bowes, James L. Notes on Shippō, Privately Printed, Liverpool, 1895. Regards, John L. Quote
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