New aquisition wakizashi

[bubba-san]

Hello folks, this is my first post , I want to say that is a pleasure to be part of your forum with many knowledgable members . My name is James But , my friends call me Bubba-san . It was name given to me by Japanese sensei when I lived in Yokosuka, Japan after several tours of Vietnam , I was transferred to Japan , where I learned some Japanese forging techniques and a bit of history . My real question is I have a Bizen wakizashi that is mumei but, the original or last owner gave me some info on sword , It is as follows " sword was done by Okuru of Nishigawa in Shibata and is from the muromachi era and is 400 -500 years old . Does this name make any sense to anyone ? I tried for several days to locate any information on the smith to no avail . Respectfully Bubba-san ....... James

[bmoore1322]

I went to this web site, and could not find any name Okuru listed anywhere on there.

 

Link;

 

http://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch

 

 

Brian

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

IMHO it doesn't look Bizen.

[bubba-san]

Hi,

 

IMHO it doesn't look Bizen.

 

Are you sure about that ? I was told by, David Mcdonald that it certainly was ? Bizen in good polish. although

he could be wrong . But not likely . He has not been wrong in the past. But anything is possible .?

 

 

David McDonald

P.O. Box 265

Sidney MT 59270

406-482-3243 evening - mountain time

 

http://www.montanairon.com/swords.html

[bubba-san]

I am sorry misstyped name It is Okura of Nishigawa in Shibata.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

For what i see (based on your pictures) the nakago is not a Bizen one

[bubba-san]

Hi Jacques D. I am sorry but, I have to disagree with you .two well known appraisers tell me it is Bisen

They say all Bisen nakago are not all long slender nor are they all signed .The picture is taken from an angle to the left . In your opinion what would you say it is ! I say this one has been altered (Futsu Gata) as per the appraiser.

the question I posed was , does anyone know this maker not if nakago is Ubu. You are speaking semantics but, I appreciate your opinion regardless... respectfully James

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

 

They say all Bisen nakago are not all long slender nor are they all signed

 

Oh, sorry, i wasn't aware of that.

 

A Bizen wakizashi below

 

http://www.shibuiswords.com/sukesada.htm

[pcfarrar]

Bubba,

 

Do you have any closeup photos of the tsuba. Is it iron? Most of the ones you see in that style are soft metal.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

[bubba-san]

Yes it is iron , I do not believe it is original to sword . The kanji is very worn and hard to translate.

It is a kissing Dragon motif. I can try and take you a few close ups . Regards James

[bubba-san]

Jacques D.

Nice sword , however there are at least 6 different nakago used on Bisen sword .

 

Some even have notches. Some are very curved while some are straight . When I was young man ,I lived in Japan for 11 years and had opportunity to study the different styles

 

My great father marry Ainu Lady in 1850 , I am 1/6 Ainu. Watashi no nihongo wa heta desu, I dont have anyone to practice with for 40 years . I am now 70 years . Thank you .... James

[Jean]

Of course, James, there are different Bizen nakago/Nakago jiri depending on the school and the period.

Some having notches or not do not however interfere with the general pattern, curve or straight, tapered or almost parallel.

[bubba-san]

Hi Jean , The style and shape on wakizashi is nearly identical to Futsu Gato when viewed from straight on .

There will always be disagreements on almost every aspect of sword constuction . Even the gokaden had thier ins and outs . Sometimes it led to armed conflict . No armed conflict here, but there will be differences of opinion I am quite sure . Respectfully James .

[bmoore1322]

@ Bubba-San

 

 

Just to keep people from arguing in here, lets just resolve this, and sell me this wakizashi.

 

See, that was easy, problem solved.

 

All kidding aside, I do like the looks of this, but of course I do prefer the wakizashi over other blades.

 

Brian

[Jean]

In fact James, starting Muromachi we can at 99% see always the same nakago pattern in Bizen swords, katana/tachi/wakizashi/tanto.

[bubba-san]

You are right sir .I also like wakizashi . As a matter of fact I am forging several wakizashi .

they are quite wide and are great for tamashigiri . Blade steel is low manganese 1075 . should make a great Hamon . thank you .. James

[runagmc]

Jacques D.

Nice sword , however there are at least 6 different nakago used on Bisen sword .Some even have notches. Some are very curved while some are straight . When I was young man ,I lived in Japan for 11 years and had opportunity to study the different styles

 

My great father marry Ainu Lady in 1850 , I am 1/6 Ainu. Watashi no nihongo wa heta desu, I dont have anyone to practice with for 40 years . I am now 70 years . Thank you .... James

Can you show examples of these or give a reference about them? Obviously there were different styles of nakago from Bizen smiths over the centuries, but from what I've seen late Koto/Shinto Bizen wakizashi had a pretty consistent nakago shape... and I would agree that yours doesn't appear to have that typical shape. Can ANYONE present a documented example of a nakago that matches the OP's from sue-Koto/Shinto Bizen?

[NihontoEurope]

Adam,

 

At least one generation of Norimitsu changed style. I think it was 4th or 5th. I believe it was Kengyo-ish style.

 

I agree to the fact that this Nakago does not trigger Bizen brain cell activity.

 

It would be nice to learn something new.

 

/Martin

[bubba-san]

Sorry folks I have been busy in shop Heat treat morning "Yakiri' I will post them as soon as I can look them up in files , I have many pics so it may take a bit ... James

[runagmc]

Martin, thanks for the info... I don't remember ever hearing that. Any pictures for a visual reference would be great.

[NihontoEurope]

Martin, thanks for the info... I don't remember ever hearing that. Any pictures for a visual reference would be great.

 

Adam,

 

Not the one I was referring to, but almost a ringer. The one I was referring to was more like a hybrid between Kengyo/Ichimonji where the HA end was notably higher. Check link also... http://toyuukai.com/2012/05/%E5%82%99%E ... %E5%85%89/

 

NORIMITSU - 1462, 8TH MONTH.jpg[/attachment]

 

/Martin

[NihontoEurope]

Here is a Bizen Norimitsu with the Kengyo type Nakago:

 

[attachment=0]Bizen Norimitsu.PNG[/attachment]

 

/Martin

[runagmc]

Thanks for those Martin. Even with the kengyo nakago-jiri, the non-tapering nakago (saki-bari gata nakago) still has the typical sue-Koto/Shinto Bizen look to my eyes, though...

 

Also, it's worth mentioning that the blade you posted with kengyo nakago-jiri appears to be a moroha-zukuri tanto...

[NihontoEurope]

Yes Adam,

 

I think is the variants we know as "typical" Bizen. It should be interesting to see the rest Bizen specimen.

 

/Martin