Kyubi no ita!

[Viper6924]

Hi guys!

 

This thread was inspired by Anthonys thread about his new armour. Under the section "nicknacks" this single kyubi no ita, which I had for many years, pops up. Three things always interested me. 1. Age of course. I guess EDO-period always works. But any opinion to a more precise date? 2. The crosslike decoration. Is this a common design? I def get some catholic vibes. Which if true ads something something. 3. The "inscription" which after reading Ian´s reply on Anthonys thread, would be a licence date for the leather. Correct?

I guess this piece would have looked really nice from the beginning. Almost all of the gold decoration is gone. It´s actually a pretty heavy piece.

 

/Jan

[IanB]

Jan, I don't want to rain on your parade, but I'm afraid the Kyubi no ita isn't very old. The cross shapes are in fact shobu gawa - that is they are meant to be iris flowers with leaves each side. Traditionally this was made by clamping strips of wood with carved wooden stamps attached onto the leather wrapped around a drum. It was then dyed with indigo. Where the stamps pressed into the leather the dye was prevented from penetrating thus leaving the design in white on the blue ground. However, the dye did bleed under the stamp slightly giving the design a slightly fuzzy look. The leather on your kyubi no ita is too sharp and has been done with a stencil. I would guess Showa period.

Ian Bottomley

[Viper6924]

Thanks, Ian! Can´t win em all. Goes from section "EDO-period nicknacks" to " youthful optimism"

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

This was used on the left of the chest in O-yoroi, I understand.

 

I have (and regularly use interchangeably) two sets of what people call Gyoyo, originally to cover the thick cords which hang the breastplate from the shoulders, and which became in time mere hanging decorations.

 

The vocabulary is so hard to learn, isn't it!

[george trotter]

For those of us who are not armour collectors/students, can you tell us why the armour in Anthony's thread and this piece of armour both have the exact same date on them? (Shohei 5 year = 1350). I'd be interested.

Regards,

[Bugyotsuji]

George this is a common trap that many beginning experts continue fall into. As explained on the other threads, it is simply a standard pattern stamp used over the centuries by the leather maker, regardless of when it was produced.

[IanB]

Piers, With your command of Japanese surely not. Gyoyo were originally shoulder defences on early do-maru worn by retainers - sitting on the point of the shoulder like the kohire of later armours. When the samurai adopted do-maru they added the o-sode from their old o-yoroi so the gyoyo became redundant in their original role and were swung forward to cover the fastening cords. Far from being decorative, they protect what are the most important cords on the do.

 

George, The date is that when the pattern of leather was licensed for production - Shohei period.

Ian

[Bugyotsuji]

Ian, thanks for the clarification. As to the 'correct' vocab, it is so easy to get lazy when you are struggling for the correct word, and they put such store by getting it right. It has been emphasized that if I want to be taken seriously I need to string these specialized words together effortlessly. How much easier it is to call something a "nani? ...are, eh to... sore". I referred to round-headed rivet pins as Bisu (screws) the other day in a silly moment of weakness and got an uncommonly sharp reminder that they are properly called Byo. One kicks oneself!

 

In actual fact, the way we in the Tai wear them they do not cover the cords at all, but hang down attached but below them off the top of the Do. As far as I can see everyone in the troop who has Gyoyo wears them this way as a de-rigueur decorative item, but if you ask the members they will all explain the original role of the Gyoyo protecting the strings above their present position.

[IanB]

Piers, I may have told this tale already, but I had a similar incident at Nikko for the Spring Festival. About 20 guys were dressed as archers with utsubo - they were fake but looked good. They insisted they were worn with the lid upwards diagonally across their backs. I suggested they might try wearing them properly and received strange pitying looks. This despite the fact that there are large murals done in the 20's showing them worn properly.

Ian

[george trotter]

Thanks Piers et al...

Of course I did not think the armours were actually dating from 1350, just curious that such an early date was "so fresh" on these examples. Thanks for the information.

regards,

[estcrh]

On the image of this o-yoroi you can see the sendan no ita on the left, and on the right is the kyubi-no-ita which I have seen translated as "dove tail plate".

 

The next image shows how the sendan no ita and the kyubi-no-ita evolved into gyoyo.

[Bugyotsuji]

Easy-to-understand illustrations, Eric. Many thanks.

 

I think we need to clarify that the Kyubi-no-Ita (on the "right" in the photo as we look at it) was on the left breast of the wearer.

[estcrh]

I once read about why the sendan no ita and the kyubi no ita were not symmetrically shaped as the later gyoyo were but I can not find it now.

[IanB]

Eric, Kyubi no ita protects the bow arm and hence can be solid. The sendan no ita is for the sword arm and hence is articulated.

Ian B

[Meikeru]

I realise this is a very old thread and I apologise for necroing it but I just wanted to say thank you! I’ve been searching for ages trying to find out about these pieces of armour! I found my way here via google images of all places! Can anybody tell me when the Kyubi/Sendan No Ita were phased out and replaced with Gyoyo? Maybe just a rough idea period-wise?

 

I’m not even sure anybody will even see this reply all these years later, but it’s worth a shot!

 

Many thanks either way!

[Luc T]

Very good question meikeru!

These 2 things are very archaic, used during the Japanese middle ages by mounted archerers.

The latter ones, the gyojo, were used when infantery came into play.

I am sur Ian can tell us more about this.

[Brian]

Will allow the necro-post since it will add to the original info.

[Bugyotsuji]

Ian answered in Post #7, despite not putting an exact date to it.

 

There must have been mix and flux and crossover for centuries when different armour styles and both types were used, but by the mid 1500s with everyone wearing Tosei gusoku, the Gyoyo Ginkgo leaf would have been lighter and more symbolical.

 

Can anyone refine this more?

[IanB]

Piers,  I will try. O-yoroi lost their dominance following the Mongol invasion when galloping around on horseback shooting arrows had proved totally ineffective against an enemy who did not know the etiquette. As a result, the aristocratic samurai abandoned their traditional armour and adopted the do-maru (which were actually called haramaki at the time) that had been worn by their retainers and added to them the helmet, sode of their o-yoroi. This change was for the simple reason that the multiple kusazuri of the do-maru were better for fighting on foot than the four big ones of an o-yoroi and also eliminated the separate plate on the right, the waidate of the o-yoroi. Archery also lost its predominance in favour of staff weapons such as naginata and nagamaki. As has been said, the old sendan-no ita and kyubi no ita which worked well for archery, were replaced by the gyoyo that on a retainer's armour had been fastened to the side of the watagami and sat on the point of the shoulders. 

Ian Bottomley

[Meikeru]

Thank you very much! I honestly didn’t think I would receive a reply all these years later! What a fantastic group this is!

 

I have another question regarding the Kyubi/Sendan No Ita.. I think I read somewhere that one of the two pieces sometimes incorporated a rank mark or rank markings on them in some way? Is there any info on this at all or was it just misinformation?

 

Many thanks again to you all!!

[Bugyotsuji]

In the absence of any other reply, my experience says no, but of course it would be interesting to hear otherwise.

There may be examples displaying a particular Mon/Kamon, and the quality of the workmanship will usually tell you something about the owner's wealth and status, but not rank.

[Meikeru]

Thanks for the reply! I was under the same impression, I just wanted to check with others who knew more about these things than I!

I’m going to assume what I read on the subject (which i cant find anymore!) was incorrect!

Thanks again!

[uwe]

Hi Meikeru?

 

I never came across a rank marking on “sendan-no-ita” or “kyūbi-no-ita”. Sometimes you can find a “mon” on gyoyo...but that’s it, as far as i know....

[IanB]

Meikeru, Uwe has said it all. Mon, or rather kamon to be pedantic, became common on armour during the Sengoku Jidai and the gyoyo as well as the fukigayeshi on the helmet became an ideal place to display them. What is annoying is that so many are simply tied to the fastening cords on many armours and not being permanently attached have become lost. I have a pair on a late Muromachi do-maru that may or not actually belong originally but do match in style and apparent age. Another pair on an armour with a helmet signed by Nagamichi are actually hinged to the shoulder strap itself so I know they do belong.The first pair have no kamon but the latter, like many other parts of the armour, have a kamon in shakudo. What is rather nice is that the hinge pin on the latter is like a 'split pin' and is tied to the hinge with a thin silk cord so that it doesn't get lost.

Ian Bottomley

[Meikeru]

Uwe, Ian, thank you both for the valuable input!

 

Much appreciated!

[Bugyotsuji]

I have/had three or four pairs of Gyoyo which are fun to play with on different armours. Mix ‘n match. One was the standard printed deer leather with brass fukurin surround which I sold a couple of months ago.

 

One set is made of chased brass, a bulgy curvy pair. These are currently in active service on my demo armour.

 

The last is an iron set sporting the three round ‘stars’ Mon of the Matsuura in a repoussé hammered relief. Rivet holes along the edges suggest they were once fukigaeshi on a helmet. Rescued and repurposed? I suspect that these are quite old. Late Muromachi?

[Luc T]

The last is an iron set sporting the three round ‘stars’ Mon of the Matsuura in a repoussé hammered relief. Rivet holes along the edges suggest they were once fukigaeshi on a helmet. Rescued and repurposed? I suspect that these are quite old. Late Muromachi?

That sounds interesting, converted fukigeashi...?