Edo Period Corner Part II

[watsonmil]

Dear Jan,

I cannot rule out the example or COPY you purchased was not made in Japan. And yes the Japanese did have a short large bore gun that was loaded with shot ( not common ) obviously made for combat rather than hunting. Just for the hell of it, I searched for and found among my boxes of parts an example of the brass shot holding tube virtually identical to yours, ... the inside diameter measured 1.5 cm. and I know mine was meant for a hunting shotgun. You must also remember that the Japanese were fond of bird shooting, and so would also used shotguns for hunting waterfowl. As I stated before there is probably no way of determining whether your example was made in Japan or acquired by trade from an American/European ..... WHAT I can say with certainty is that if of Japanese manufacture it is still a COPY of an European design meant for measuring various loads of shot.

... Ron Watson

[Brian]

As Ron said, there is little doubt about what it is. Quite common in old collections. Where it was made is only a guess..but what it is, isn't.

Among old guns I have seen in Japan, you can find any number of old percussion pieces from Adams/Tranters, to Colts, to old single shot English Muff pistols. So I am very sure there were any number of old English shotguns with accessories such as this one..for birdshot and larger.

 

Brian

[Viper6924]

I´m pretty sure that You are right about Your suggestion that this could be European/American, Ron. Or copied in Japan. I was most surprised to find info about this "Iron-shot teppo". From description a very solid and respectful "trenchcleaner".

 

Jan

[estcrh]

Piers showed a box like this one as being an ammo box, I have seen a few like it before but did not know their use, this one just sold in Japan for quite a high price for a small box.

[k morita]

Hi,

It is written to the box side as TATOTSU.

TATOTSU means as place name TADOTSU, or TADOTSU clan in Shikoku .多度津

The family crest also matches.

[Bugyotsuji]

Thank you Morita San. The rest of the writing suggests an ammunition box for small arms. The Kamon and writing have probably given added value to this nice little chest.

[estcrh]

Thank you Morita san and Piers for the translations. Piers you may be right about why it was sought after, there is another one right now that is not getting much interest, it looks like the drawers may have been replaced and there is no writing on this one.

[Bugyotsuji]

Eric, that looks like a more purposeful locking ammo box. Those may actually be original drawers. Sometimes the drawers have writing on the sides or bottoms. Without seeing more pics I cannot be sure, but if you want a good deal on an ammo chest with a limited budget, this could be a good one for someone to go for.

[Viper6924]

I was watching a fierce auctionwar between buyers who really wanted some samuraiflags. The war is now over

So I just wanted to ask how this flag was used? It´s rather small if You compare it to the pack of smokes. Supposed to be from the boshin-wars.

They had two up for sale.

 

/Jan

[cabowen]

given the plethora of small boxes and chest of drawers in Japan, how do we know with certainty that this small box was made as a locking ammo chest?

 

Seems there would be a nice market for buying these small chests and writing ammo on the sides, then putting them up for auction...

[Brian]

Considering the use of matchlocks....what ammunition was locked away?

Doesn't seem like there would be much point in locking away lead balls...and cartridges weren't used extensively enough to have dedicated locked boxes? Was it gunpowder that was locked up?

 

Brian

[IanB]

Jan, I have one of these little flags which was kindly given to me by a well-known Tokyo dealer. I assumed it was a sode jirushi, tied onto the sode to show allegiance. As I was leaving he commented 'It might be a luggage label.'

As for the so-called ammunition boxes, note the first one has no lock, just a catch. Apart from the writing and kamon, obviously done at the same time with the same paint, it could equally be a box to carry a craftsman's tools or a thousand other uses. The second, shown by Eric, does have a lock and could equally be used for all manner of purposes. In Zobyo Monogatari, the ammo supplier is shown with a box on his back with shoulder straps rather than handles to sling from a pole.

Ian Bottomley

[Justin Grant]

Hi,

It is written to the box side as TATOTSU.

TATOTSU means as place name TADOTSU, or TADOTSU clan in Shikoku .多度津

The family crest also matches.

 

森田さn

 

Why would it be in Katakana and not Kanji or at least hiragana? I thought it was Taatsu　ターツ, but see how the "to"　ト 　could be read.

 

ありがとうございます

 

グラント

[estcrh]

Here is another interesting box, and quite rare, once I had a chance to examine it I understood why these are not seen very often despite once being quite common. The wood is very thin and yet each panel was drilled and pegged together with wood dowels only. 58 cm x 52 cm x 53 cm.

[k morita]

Piers san,

 

Is it a small dot of Katakana which the arrow shows?

Or it's a scratche?

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, Morita San, I cannot be sure, but the dot seems to be colored/coloured red. Combine that with the matching Kamon, and despite the lack of a dakuten to change 'to' into 'do', Occam's Razor would suggest that your theory of the reading Tatotsu (Tadotsu) makes the best immediate sense.

 

Going with Justin's suggestion of Taatsu makes the problem more obscure, to me anyway. Justin, what did you have in mind?

[Bugyotsuji]

Been so busy this week helping with the local sword society's display at the local Life Study Center/Centre, citizens' hall. Some beautiful examples of Nihonto, Saya, Tsuka(maki) and tsuba, both old and some newly-made by mostly Bizen artisans. Various books on swords and matchlocks. They have given me a guide badge and left the teppo section up to me, so each day I have been refreshing one wall with decorative gun-related bits, such as teppo and peripherals, prints/paintings, helmets, Jingasa, Jimbaori, etc.

[Viper6924]

and I´m sure there will be pictures later from this teppo-section? Please... :D

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

Last year there was a huge section packed with guns of all shapes and sizes, but this year it is much more laid back, with a revolving menu of slightly different content each day.

 

Strangely, what remains most strongly in my mind after two days was this one tsuba with a kin-zogan Buddhist bell carved into it... in the round! How thick is that?!?!

[Bugyotsuji]

Under thick glass, so hard to get a clear shot.

[Bugyotsuji]

The exploded section for touch and handling both a sword and a matchlock.

 

Two shots of the overall non-swords/tsuba section on Day 2.

[Bugyotsuji]

Took over 100 low-density photos. Here are a few for general feeling.

[Brian]

That tsuba is awesome. :D

Thanks for sharing Piers.

 

Brian

[cabowen]

Indeed! The Juto Terukane isn't bad either!

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, it is as if each piece has been chosen carefully for some unusual but unspoken quality.

 

Here are some closer shots of Tanegashima peripherals for Jan who was asking. The first shot is the first day... and the rest are from the second day. (Tomorrow I will be doing another rearrangement, despite the approaching typhoon... :lol: )

[Bugyotsuji]

Oh, what the hell, a couple more from the first day for luck! And these are before the swords and tsuba... (interestingly I was struck by how some of the modern work being shown by these young and upcoming artists can be just as good in its own right as anything produced centuries ago. Talent is talent. Genius is genius. Such work transcends time and place.)

[Viper6924]

Well, I can safely say that I had my daily dose of tanegashima stimulation. Great pictures. Looks like a very nice collection.

I have a bit further to go with my own collection I especially like the fat stocky teppo with the ramrod thick like a drumstick.

 

Thanks again for taking the time with the pictures!

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

Glad you enjoyed them Jan. Spent the evening

framing a couple of Ukiyo-e to take tomorrow. Should

I take my last hold-out guns or not? Hmmm...

[Bugyotsuji]

View of the locking glass viewing cases from the other end. (For swords and Tosogu.)

[Bugyotsuji]

Just for fun here are two matching Kutani-ware Tokkuri I found not too long ago. I do not think they are very old, but I like the design of the travelling samurai group.

 

Hard to photo all the way round, so I allowed one to pick up where the other left off.