Edo Period Corner Part II

[Bugyotsuji]

On Saturday evening at the local NBTHK sword meeting I got word that two wakizashi projects of mine have moved a step forwards!

 

One is the umegané work on a Tenbun 3 Sukesada in shirasaya. This will be interesting to see, before it gets sent off for togi. I will try and get some ‘before’ and ‘after’ shots.

 

The other is a new tsukamaki on the koshiraé of a mumei wakizashi. The old tsuka maki ito was badly perished.
(One artisan had also advised me to change the sageo to black at the same time, but the tsukamaki-shi advised against. “It would be a pity to get rid of such a good quality sageo”, he said. 
 

Will post some shots here if the work looks decent. 

[Bugyotsuji]

The missing sections along the mune.

 

 

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

50 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

The missing sections along the mune.....

This is probably caused by the blade's construction. The KOBUSE or HONSANMAI build-up sometimes reveal an incomplete weld in the back side (= MUNE) which may show as a simple folding line or crack (it isn't a crack in fact). If the TOGISHI decides that the flaw is too deep, he may just leave it this way. The other solution would be to reduce the MIHABA considerably in an attempt to make it disappear.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Very interesting Piers, it looks uniform enough to suggest Umegane were there before?

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for the replies and thoughts. I tend to agree with both.

 

I have had the 'trenches' back-filled, and now plan to contact a willing Togi-Shi. 
 

Left facet of new mune, (habaki pulled back) in rough state

 

Right facet, pre togi 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Interestingly, following Jean’s post above, I found a faint line right along the top of the Nakago!

 

(Luckily the sheep stayed still long enough to enable the shots.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Today we had an interesting meet to see some of the Hōnō blades in a large shrine nearby. The Kan-nushi explained that these blades had all been offered to the gods at various times and that we should enter into the same spirit when viewing them. My feeling was that those smiths who gave their blades must have been quite satisfied and confident in their work.

 

During the meet, I had the polisher look at the umégané job above on the Sukesada blade, and he has agreed to polish the recently filled section. (Something to look forward to.)

 

As to the other mumei wakizashi in mounts, he said that the polish is not an immediate concern. Despite some discolourings and one ‘spiderweb’ rust(?) nest, he and a smith who was watching both agreed that it will clean up with other methods, short of Togi work. Use oil and alcohol (ethanol?) alternatively to lift and shift it, and clean it off with uchiko they said. “But the hiké cannot be helped…”

 

The blade itself has been a mystery to me but today there was a suggestion to look at Shintō 因州 In-Shū 兼先 Kanesaki and narrow it from there. 

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Use oil and alcohol (ethanol?) alternatively to lift and shift it, and clean it off with uchiko they said.

Any idea how to do this?  What is the process?

[Bugyotsuji]

14 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Any idea how to do this?  What is the process?

Well, yes, absolutely. I was given so much advice yesterday that I could not absorb or visualize it all. Standing in a large tatamai mat room with not a bottle, cloth nor tool in sight.

 

When the togishi gives back the first blade, possibly at our first sword appreciation meet next month, we have already agreed to discuss the second blade after any intervening further thoughts, and thus what to do or how to take it further. His feeling was that it did not need any intervention with stones., that the polish was/is good enough as it is. I will make sure to ask him again, Bruce, exactly what they were trying to describe.

 

In an ideal world I would love to watch them working on it with these substances before trying it out myself. I even got a sense that the kaji was describing localized spot treatment with oil to 'lift' the little verruca spiderweb marking (rust? mold/mould?), and then to hit the oil with, what did he say, the opposite, (acetone, ethanol?). I do not have either of the latter, so I cannot go wrong. Watch this space.

 

In the meantime last night I oiled this blade for the first time since I've had it. I removed the oil normally with soft tissues, then gave it a light uchiko course, and finally oiled it lovingly once more. Most but not all of the second oil I again removed before resheathing it. He did say something about soaking, I recall now, making sure the oil worked its way into the steel, which gave me a momentary 'spongy' image!

[Bruce Pennington]

5 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Bruce, exactly what they were trying to describe.

 

In an ideal world I would love to watch them working on it with these substances before trying it out myself. I even got a sense that the kaji was describing localized spot treatment with oil to 'lift' the little verruca spiderweb marking (rust? mold/mould?), and then to hit the oil with, what did he say, the opposite, (acetone, ethanol?). I do not have either of the latter, so I cannot go wrong.

I have heard, ever so briefly, that using alcohol can help remove stains.  Now, reading your post, I see that there is an oil/alcohol technique for removing spider-webs.  I have never read/heard what the process is, and was hoping you knew.  I have blades with spider-wegs and black stains, both either and both.  Hoping to learn how to really use this process.

[Brian]

Evaporust. Won't damage the steel, but will remove the rust. But it will remove any patina or chemically applied finishes, so keep it away from anything else.

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks Brian, I'll look into that. 

[rematron]

14 hours ago, Brian said:

Evaporust. Won't damage the steel, but will remove the rust. But it will remove any patina or chemically applied finishes, so keep it away from anything else.

 

And this is okay to use on nihonto?

[Brian]

I am NEVER going to wholeheartedly recommend any non-traditional method of cleaning or rust removal. But for ONLY very out of polish blades with active rust (Keep it AWAY from the nakago) Evaporust will remove rust, yes. It will leave pitting showing though, and get down to bare metal. It will remove bluing and patina that was applied, so keep away from your blued firearms. Does nothing to the metal, and is harmless to skin.
I think it's application (for me mainly) is old knives with rusted blades.
Again, not an endorsement. But it's wonderful on old tools and machine parts.

[Stephen]

On 10/30/2023 at 12:17 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

technique for removing spider-webs.  I have never read/heard what the process is, and was hoping you knew.  I have blades with spider-wegs and black stains,

Not sure of what your talking about spider rust can't be wiped off with anything need to have a polish

As are most black stains unless old oil

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Not sure of what your talking about spider rust can't be wiped off with anything need to have a polish

As are most black stains unless old oil

I suspected as much, but I was refering to Pier's post, 8 posts up from yours -

"As to the other mumei wakizashi in mounts, he said that the polish is not an immediate concern. Despite some discolourings and one ‘spiderweb’ rust(?) nest, he and a smith who was watching both agreed that it will clean up with other methods, short of Togi work. Use oil and alcohol (ethanol?) alternatively to lift and shift it, and clean it off with uchiko they said. “But the hiké cannot be helped…”

 

But after re-reading, the "lift, and shift...and clean it off" must have been refering to some active rust and not the spider web.  Right?

[Bugyotsuji]

No, there is no active rust that I can see except this one small circular wart-sized  ‘web’ which could be mo(u)ld or anything. It looks fainter already after the simple double-oiling process above.

 

Ideally, I’d take some photos, but the family are all here and demanding this and that and to be taken here and there… and I collapse into a heap each time  they’ve finished with me.

 

Let’s wait for further updates on this.

[Stephen]

Bruce I was addressing your swords maybe when you have time some photos of your spider whatever and dark stains.

 

Never heard web part before 

[Stephen]

Or not

[Bruce Pennington]

22 hours ago, Stephen said:

maybe when you have time some photos of your spider whatever and dark stains.

I'll start a new topic and post them.  It's a star-stamped Kunitoshi.

 

Sorry to have gone off-track for your Edo thread.  Back to regular programming!

[Bugyotsuji]

Entirely welcome, Bruce. 
Discussion went thattaway!

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/46790-cleaning-spider-webs-stains/#comment-484959

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Satsuma

Someone is offering me a deal on a Naminohira Yasuyoshi 波平安好 tanto.

 

I have found one reference (see below) to a Yasuyoshi, (son of Yasuuji), who later changed name to become 行安 Yukiyasu, 61st gen.,  around Bunka, mid-Edo. Found in the Nihonto Meikan, but not listed in the Nihonto Club swordsmith Index, does anyone have any further information? 

 

日本刀 短刀 波平安好（六十一代行安初銘）文化十年酉二月吉日｜日本刀 刀剣販売 e-sword

[Bugyotsuji]

Is that voices in the distance shouting “Why bovver?” 

 

Well, to answer your questions, what I am thinking is that it’s a) a nice blade, b) signed (not singed), with the Nami-no-hira name plus some background to investigate, c) under the legal length limit thus not needing registration, d) my first entry to Satsuma blades, and e) the Koshiraé is pleasingly unusual.

 

Ten days till the deal runs out so I am placing pros and cons onto the old weighing scales of justice.

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning Old Bean,

 

Can you please explain "under the legal length limit thus not needing registration".

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

MalX, as far as I know the rule in Japan  is that if a traditional single-edged blade is 15 cm or over it needs to be registered with the local Education Board. 
 

For this reason you might discover blades that have been cut down to 14.9 cm for example, in order to sidestep the law. Such unregistered blades are seen by the authorities as a dangerous challenge to the law, i.e. not innocent.

 

More recently the law has been updated and clarified, and it is illegal to carry around a blade over 5.5 cm long without a specific ‘provable’ reason.

For this reason most sword shops will recommend contacting not the Police but the Education Board and asking for proper registration for any art blade of between 5.5 and 15 cm in length.

 

The blade in question above I can probably wrap well and carry straight home from purchase, where it is legal to own. If stopped on the way home, I would have to prove when and where I bought it, i.e. that this is not casual ‘carrying around’.

 

I would then hope to go through the process of registering it too, to be on the safe side.

 

 

[Baka Gaijin]

Thank you Piers, Old Bean.

 

As always a mine of useful information

[Bugyotsuji]

12 hours ago, Baka Gaijin said:

Thank you Piers, Old Bean.

 

As always a mine of useful information

No, it is I who must thank YOU Malcolm for bringing this up. It needed checking, and after searching around to try and get to the truth of the law here, I am actually more confident and in a much better position regarding the potential purchase. I know what questions to ask the dealer now! For example I want to look more closely to make sure it is ubu, and not a more recently ‘legalized’ blade.

[Bugyotsuji]

And sometimes you need a little advice, and then a little faith. 
 

The spider in the other wakizashi blade does indeed seem to be fading under repeated oilings and Uchiko. Now trying to get a focus on it with the camera, and it’s hardly possible to even see it!

(Normally I would definitely not recommend liberal rubbings with Uchiko.)

 

Before

 

 

After (so far)

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

PS Re the above, when I used the words 'repeated rubbings', I did not mean 'localized' rubbing solely over the damned spot, (to quote W. Shakespeare).

 

I have tried to distribute any uchiko rubbing equally overall: nothing frantic or overdone.

 

Oh, and an added word of wisdom that I heard the other day when discussing the new tsuka-maki job and how much I admired the guy's work. Mr Akamatsu, a swordsmith who is active in both blade and koshirae work, and a fountain of anything historical, said to me, "People tend to worry about whether to keep the perished tsuka-maki or to have it restrung. Many do not realize that during the Edo Period it was part of the yearly cycle to renew the old stringing on the hilt every New Year."

[Bugyotsuji]

The Sukesada has come back with the mune completed and polished. It’s virtually impossible to see the umegane section. No one at the sword meet this evening could see it.

Grateful thanks to the artisans involved. What a team!