shobu zukuri, or not really?

[Soten_Fan]

I picked this waki a few months ago. At first glance it appears to be a shobu zukuri sugata, but Nakahara states in his book that this is a questionable classification. Reason being that the shinogi does not continue into the tip but upward to the back of the blade. So if it isn't a shobu zukuri, is it a nagamaki naoshi instead? I am not quite sure. Here a few photos of the blade and koshirae (Not that the koshirae will help answering that question, but I thing it is beautiful).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No pics of the tang cause it is very hard to remove from tsuka and I want to avoid causing any damage. It is an unsigned suriage blade though. My photography skills failed once again to capture the details of the hada. The hamon is a very irregular, almost exploding midare, the sori is shallow, and the fukura is rather rounded.

 

Thanks in advance for your insight!

[Veli]

Hello Dimitri!

 

I would call that shobu zukuri, but then I am no expert... could be a shortened nagamaki.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/Shikkake.html

 

Very nice wakizashi! The hamon looks almost hitatsura to me. The polish appears a little mirror-like in the pictures, and hada is not visible in the photos, as you said, but that's probably just the photograph effect. What is the hada like? Any masame?

 

BR, Veli

[Bazza]

Nice looking sword. If I could imitate a Forum luminary and show how little I know, is that a Nara fuchigashira???

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

[Jean]

This Topic has already been discussed, Dimitri, in light of Nakahara remarks. I remember posting a picture of a true shobu zukuri blade according to his standard. Just search the forum

[Soten_Fan]

Hi Jean,

I found the topic about that Spaniard who inherited the sword gifted by emperor Hirohito, and went through the long debate regarding my question. As the debate was inconclusive, my question remains unanswered.. :lol:

 

The sword could be anything, and I guess that the most proper way to describe is nagamaki naoshi. Now if it is a real shortened nagamaki, that is another story. It is suriage, but even that can be faked.

 

Was there any period that was in fashion to forge blades in that shape so they look like a shortened nagamaki?

 

Bazza, as for the fuchi-kashira I don't really know if it is Nara school. What makes you think so?

[paulb]

Dimitri,

regarding the fashion or popularity of making swords which appeared to be shorten blades from an earlier period, I think there are examples throughout the whole of sword making history. With regard to nagamaki Naoshi, I think making swords to look like this was particulaly popular at the end of the Shinto period and in to the Shi-Shinto.

[markturner]

Hi Dimitri, just seen this...Nice piece ! Love the shape, ( whatever it is..!!) Did you buy from Don? Sorry I cant be of help as the the question raised..!

 

Best, Mark

[nagamaki - Franco]

1) The sword could be anything, 2) and I guess that the most proper way to describe is nagamaki naoshi. Now if it is a real shortened nagamaki, that is another story. It is suriage, but even that can be faked.

 

3) Was there any period that was in fashion to forge blades in that shape so they look like a shortened nagamaki?

 

1) Not really, if it is just suriage and that can be determined, then it is only a wakizashi.

2) If there is no physical evidence of this ever being mounted as a nagamaki, then it cannot be called a nagamaki naoshi.

3) It is not uncommon to see Shinto swords that are copies of earlier O-suriage Koto pieces like this.

 

Part of the enjoyment of studying nihonto is tracing back the shapes and history to the originals.

[Marius]

Dimitri,

 

Please have a look at the boshi - it it is yakizume (no turn-back), chances are you have a cut down pole-arm (I would use the term naginata naoshi to avoid any nagamaki controversy).

 

Also, a pronounced saki-zori would indicate a naginata naoshi. Please look at these two swords:

 

http://nihonto.us/BITCHU%20AOE%20NAGINATANAOSHI.htm

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Hojoji_Nagi ... zashi.html

 

Your pics do not show the sugata, so it is rather hard to say what your sword is. You said the sori is shallow - that would indicate a shinto sword, but of course that is not the only criterion.

[jamesicus]

Note: Post edited by me to avoid hi-jacking of this thread as noted by Jean below.

 

James

[Jean]

Suggestion, James,

 

Open a new topic instead of Hijacking this one

[jamesicus]

Suggestion, James,

 

Open a new topic instead of Hijacking this one

My apologies, Jean - and especially to Dimitri, the originator of this topic. It was not my intention to highjack it -- I posted without thinking it through - just old age befuddlement on my part. I don't think my post merits a new topic - it seems to me this subject has run its course.

 

James