estcrh

Sword Smiths of The Kongobyoe School, The Warrior Monks of Chikuzen https://www.amazon.ca/Smiths-Kongobyoe-School-Warrior-Chikuzen/dp/0993691803

According to the National Museum of Japanese History, the use of guns for hunting may have predated their use as weapons of war. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/78/80/e2/7880e250e6e71137a967d4cb07e64eeb.jpg

Piers, you opened the door to a whole new question. Hopefully Sawada has some references listed which explains why he thinks that there were special merchants guns. I do not have his book but if someone here does and would find that particular passage this would be helpful. I have my doubts about Sawada's statement but the only reference to Osaka merchants and weapons I know of has to do with wakizashi. I have heard many people state that Osaka merchants were responsible for the large amounts of elaborate Edo period wakizashi, but not one of these people can say were this info originates. On the other hand there is one researcher who casts some doubt on that claim. Here is a quote on the subject from "WAS CHONIN CLASS IN EDO PERIOD ALLOWED TO WEAR/CARRY SWORDS? S. Alexander Takeuchi, Ph.D. Department of Sociology University of North Alabama October 26, 2003." https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/68/60/cf/6860cf8360e38b43874e003edb70a520.jpg The question is....were Japanese matchlocks with this specific type of decoration made exclusively for merchants...or did some merchants buy existing matchlocks that were also used by samurai. The large amounts of these types of decorated matchlocks seems to indicated that there were more people using these than just Osaka merchants. As for the 3.5 monme borderline mentioned by Sawada, could the merchants have preferred this monme or were they required to use a smaller monme than samurai. If you extrapolate the info from Takeuchi's essay on Osaka merchants wakizashi to Osaka merchants matchlocks you can assume that these particular type of decorated matchlocks were not exclusive to merchants, which leaves the question about the 3.5 monme open. IF Osaka merchants were actually able to own matchlocks (some sort of proof is needed) were they specifically limited to 3.5 monme in the same way that they were limited to the size of the sword that could own? if this was the case then you can conclude that Sawada is correct.

I have imported Japanese pipes several times with no problem at all, your pipes will not be a problem, if they are antiques it helps to state that they are "over 100yr old antiques".

First I have heard of this, does he say what defines a "merchants gun" or were he gets this info from? Here is the description. Hard to tell from a picture but it looks larger than 3.5 monme. 素晴らしい火縄銃です。　　　銘：芝辻長左衛門作　　　芝辻長左衛門は、江戸幕府の御用鉄砲鍛冶として重用された、芝辻理右衛門家の分家で、「五鍛冶」と呼ばれ、他の鉄砲鍛冶を統制した極めて高名な堺の鉄砲鍛冶です。　　　銃身も美しく、銃床には、真鍮の飾細工が施されております。　　兜をかぶった武者の非常に珍しい飾が付いております。　　　細部まで丁寧に造り込まれた、秀逸な細工です。　　　カラクリも多少固くなっておりますが、きちんと作動します。　　　当時の上手のお品です。　　　登録証：愛知県　第75640号　　　 商品寸法　　　全長：125.8センチ　　銃身長：96.6センチ　　口径：1.5センチ

Lets compare the matchlock being discussed here to one currently for sale in Japan, one appears to be a plain matchlock with a few mon, I would have no problem believing that this one is either an arsenal gun with mon for identification or it was owned by a low ranking samurai, with decoration suited to the status of the owner, I see not reason to believe that it is anything else, it certainly is not overly decorated and it is not elaborate, not what one would think of as being made for western tastes etc. The second one, which I repeat is currently in Japan and is highly decorated, not only with mon but with other decorations but certainly not what you would call "elaborate", it also appears to have seen quite a bit of use judging from its condition.......if this was made for export....why is it and many other similarly decorated matchlocks still in Japan? In my opinion these were made for samurai, maybe for hunting or target practice, or for processional use etc, there is no reason I know of to assume that these types were made specifically for export. It is more likely that either western dealers choose these over the plain matchlocks, or that Japanese dealers picked these types up to sell to western dealers. Just my personal belief based on seeing numerous matchlocks still in Japan that are highly decorated but not in the manner you would expect a high ranking samurai to own.

Again good information, the type needed to back up a statement.....but.....any mention of the theory that mons were added for items specifically meant for Western Export? I have no problem believing that a certain amount of items were decorated with mons not specifically owned by any particular family, but on the other hand many items have mons that are related, case by case is how I see it. I have seen a FEW Japanese items in the west including teppo that were so poorly decorated that I would have no problem believing that they were decorated way after the item was originally manufactured, and quite possibly these were meant for export. The question is, did western dealers simply prefer to buy these already decorated items over the plain ones seeing these as being more attractive to their future clients, or did western dealers specifically ask for certain items to be decorated by Japanese artists before export, or did the Japanese dealers themselves decorate these items specifically to appeal to what they understood western tastes to be before they were even purchased by western dealers.....????

Good information Jan, I am aware that you have spent a lot of time and effort trying to do legitimate research, but this is the only statement of yours that I was questioning ......what information leads you to say this???

Really...how do you know this, what is the source of this "current commentary" besides sensei x, y or z making a statement that is accepted as "fact" and blindly repeated since you are not allowed to question were sensei x, y or z got their knowledge from. Here in the West when someone makes a statement as if they have some sort of facts to back up their statement they should have no problem stating were their knowledge came from. Maybe Jan can speak for himself and tell us how he acquired his knowledge of the subject. I am not saying that he is wrong, he could in fact be right but without revealing were his knowledge is coming from he (and you) should not be surprised if someone should question this. I do a lot of research on not only Japanese arms and armor but also arms and armor from many different cultures, I have many theories about various aspects of the items I study and if I am basing my statements on a personal theory I try to preface it by saying "in my personal opinion"..."based on what I have observed"..".based on what I have read"...etc. If I make a statement in a way which makes it seem as though I have some facts to back up what I am saying I would not be surprised if someone would question me as to were I obtained my information from. At that point I either tell them or say that it is only a personal opinion / theory with out any actually proof.

Another personal opinion without any actual proof??? Were did Brian say that kamon were made for export during the Meiji period? This is something I see thrown out as if it were a proven fact, do you have any research which backs this up? I also have seen people repeatedly say that "decorated Japanese matchlocks were not used by samurai but meant for export" etc but if that is true why are there so many of these still in Japan? Can anyone here actually say with any certainty what the rules were (if any) regarding the application of mon to matchlocks? I just do not like to see personal opinion misrepresented as proven facts.

Is that a personal opinion or is there some sort of research etc that shows this to be true?

John, yes the owner can display this armor...I personally would not, I would pack it away nice and safe until I was able to fix the problem. As I stated, more images would be needed of the lacing and the cloth backing......I see parts hanging off and rows of lacing ready to go...it looks blown to me but as you say..."Someone else might have a completely different opinion".

Actually John, without seeing more detailed images of this armor how do you know exactly what condition it is actually in? Would you personally attempt to display an armor in this condition??

Piers, I agree, Ron should be here, yes 42.7in / 108.458 total length, .75 in / 19.05 mm would equate to 11 monme I believe. With your access to Japanese sources possibly you have seen another long Japanese matchlock?????

With all of the experienced people here it is interesting that not one person said that an armor in this state should NOT be displayed....humm, im just saying. Did anyone bother to look at the images provided????

I am not sure why Ron had so much trouble having this gun shipped, maybe due to the gun being in France or his being in Canada but I just had two rather rare matchlocks shipped to the US with no problem, one from a dealer in Holland and the other from an auction house in Italy. Both guns arrived in cardboard boxes and were described as guns......the dealer and the auction house said there was no problem shipping antique guns. One was shipped by DHL and I can not remember who shipped the other one. So at least some European countries have no problem shipping antique guns to the US. Now here is an answer for Ron from another post. This is a bronze barreled Japanese long gun, the only one I have ever seen, 42.7in long and 20lbs. You can see how big it is when seen compared to other Japanese matchlocks.

This armor should not be displayed as the lacing is disintegrating and displaying it will only make matters worse. If I can see so much damage with the small, low resolution image you provided it must be much worse up close. I hope Aoi pointed out this damage in their sales description.

PASS!!!!!!!

Javier, the best general book I know of on mengu (facial armor) and kabuto would be "The Watanabe Art Musuem Samurai Armour CollectionVolume I ~ Kabuto & Mengu, Volume 1" by Trevor Absolon. The can view quite a bit of it at this link. https://books.google.com/books?id=8APyY3eIONcC&pg=PP1&lpg=PP1&dq=The+Watanabe+Art+Museum+Samurai+Armour&source=bl&ots=dRfWQFyGBn&sig=iUfhsqzK7oU0ZfG1Y-YUhZFyLv0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bqcRUt_8E-Gw2AWJzIDQAw&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=The%20Watanabe%20Art%20Museum%20Samurai%20Armour&f=false

Who ever applied the mons to the kabuto and tekko was trying to tie it all together, it would be nice to see the individual parts spread out, what a mess this armor has become.

John, Robert has an incredible amount of patience, thats what it takes to do work like this besides years of experience. Non traditional Japanese armor has not been appreciated as it should be in my opinion. The Japanese ability to armor just about any type of clothing is amazing, here are the other known yoroi hakama, very few seem to have survived although I am sure there are others hiding out unseen in various collections. The last two images are of the only known complete suits that include yoroi hakama.

Thanks Geraint, that is what forums are supposed to be about, openly sharing our accumulated knowledge with other people (except for the cost!!!) Here is a comparison view showing the before and after, hopefully it will last another couple of hundred years.

DURING RESTORATION FINSHED

Years ago I purchased this kikko kobakama (short pants with kikko armor), these in the category of "yoroi kobakama" (armored short pants) which are a sub category of "yoroi hakama" (armored pants). These are a very rare item with only a few known examples. This particular kobakama was covered with a superb silk cloth (possibly imported from China) with lacquered nerigawa (rawhide) hexagon armor plates on the front. Obviously owed by someone of stature but over time the cloth was disintegrating and one kikko plate was missing. The price was quite high despite the condition but I decided to buy it and figure out what to do with it at some later date. Anthony Bryant had two examples of yoroi kobakama on his web site and I know of two others with one being a kikko kobakama, this pair is quite plain and the kikko armor is hidden between the cloth. During 2013 I happened to run into Japanese armor restorer Robert Soanes of http://www.katchushi.com/ and we discussed our ideas of restoration verses conservation. I happened to mention my kobakama and Robert asked me to send him some pictures so he could tell me what he would do to bring it back as close as he could to its original condition without replacing all original material if possible. On March 2014 I sent Robert some pictures and we went back and forth about what type of cloth would work best to replace the old cloth. Robert contacted his sources in Japan and he send me several examples by mail. We went back and forth about the type of cloth (real silk, synthetic, cotton etc.) and the design.......as close as possible to the original or something completely different. I sent the kobakama to Robert in Jan 2016 so he could examine it and determine for sure what work needed to be done. Robert found that all of the kikko armor needed to be removed and restitched on top of the new brocade but he would able to save the everything original apart from the odoshi-ito for the leg ties, two belt supports and the mokko-gata silk loop in the center of the belt .The original silk lining, the hemp core, the chirimen silk waist tie, all the doeskin and trims and the Fusegumi could all be saved. Finally around Feb 2016 we settled on a cotton/ silk mix with a small gold bat design The woven gold thread that makes up the bat design is real gold on paper thread. This style of fabric according to Robert is known as Saga Nishiki. It was devised in the late Edo period by Kashima Nabeshima, the daimyo of Saga. It took just over 50 meters of real silk thread to sew all the Kikko plates back! Five kikko needed to be replaced, Robert made and lacquered new ones and 4 meters of kiran fabric were used. When the work was completed and I finally had it back I could not believe the difference, everyone who sees it thinks it is completely new until I show them the wear on the remaining original parts. Below are images of other yoroi kobakama and the kobakama before and after images which simply can not accurately convey how good it looks now compared to before the work was done. OTHER EXAMPLES BEFORE RESTORATION