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Everything posted by estcrh
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Uwe, I do not think that is correct, there is an agamaki and the cords from the o-sode are tied to it, or at least that is what I am seeing. The agamaki may be attached to the gattari but it is not a clear view.
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This is an "agamaki" knot, a redundant holdover on most armors, its original purpose was to help stabilize the large shoulder guards (o-sode) as seen in the image below.
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Noel Perrin's Book "giving Up The Gun"
estcrh replied to estcrh's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Continuing with this book review I ask that comments be limited to the text contained in the book, if you find it to be not factual and or historically accurate etc then by all means post a quote for discussion, if you do not have any text from the book that you disagree with please refrain from making comments based on your personal beliefs. There are only 4 books in English that I know of that have any real information on Japanese matchlocks. "Giving Up the Gun: Japan's Reversion to the Sword, 1543-1879", Noel Perrin, 1979 https://books.google.com/books?id=4Ete0zPAnjwC "Tanegashima-The Arrival of Europe in Japan", Olof G. Lidin, 2002 https://books.google.com/books/about/Tanegashima.html?id=6WQnNqhDNhAC "The Japanese Matchlock:A Story of ther Tanegashima" by Shigeo Sugawa, 1990 http://www.japaneseweapons.net/sonota/hon/english.htm "Espingarda feiticeira: A introdução da arma de fogo pelos portugueses no Extremo-Oriente / The bewitched gun : the introduction of the firearm in the far East by the Portuguese" (Portuguese and English in one book), Rainer Daehnhardt, 1994 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Espingarda-feiticeira-portugueses-Extremo-Oriente-introduction/dp/9724703738 Of these four books I would recomment reading Noel Perrins book first. It is the most interesting and readable with a lot of period illustrations. Next I would recommend reading Olof Liddens much longer book, both of these books discuss roughly the same time frame and information which is the initial introduction of the matchlock to Japan. These two books can usually be purchased online quite reasonably. Shigeo Sugawas book deals mostly with the actual matchlocks and accessories, there are a lot of very good photos, this book is a little bit more expensive usually around $100. Shigeo also has a web site in both English and Japanese which is highly recommended, there is information on all types of Japanese firearms and other weapons besides matchlocks, it is well worth taking some time to look through. Here is a link to a discussion on his book and links to his web site. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/14419-website-japaneseweaponsnet/ http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinawajyu/shurui/english.htm http://www.xn--u9j370humdba539qcybpym.jp/ Rainer Daehnhardts book should be reserved for last, it is not primarily about Japanese matchlocks, it is about the Portuguese matchlock, since the Japanese matchlock originated in Portuguese India there is some good information in this book especially about Goa India and how the Portuguese gained control of the city and eventually produced the type of matchlock first used by the Japanese, this book is also quite expensive, usually around $200 or more. Several references to Perrin not being a Japanese history scholar etc have been made here and elsewere, Anthony Bryant even made this comment about Perrin....... .....but this is actually quite inaccurate, you have to look at Perrins sources, references and his basis for even writing this book. I mentioned "The Impact of Firearms on Japanese Warfare 1543-98" by Delmer M. Brown. This short but very well researched essay was published in 1948. Now here is were Perrins book gets interesting, Delmar Brown was certainly a scholar... When you look at Perrins reference list you find Browns essay listed. Since this essay is as far as I know the first substantial written information in English on the subject of Japanese matchlocks I have come to believe that Perrin at some point in time read this essay and formulated his idea of writing a book on Japanese matchlocks at least partially based on Browns essay. Almost 30 years passed from the time of Browns essay to the publishing of Perrins book. If you look at when Browns essay was published you see that is was just a few years after WWII, not a very popular theme at that time, I think anything which seemed to shine a positive light on Japanese military history, even if it was history from several hundred years in the past would not have been extremely popular with the war being over for only 3 years. As a result it did not seem to have reached very far into the view of the general public. If Perrin did not use Browns essay as a starting point for his book it was certainly a very valuable resource since it contained numerous references to Japanese texts. I suggest that anyone interested in this subject read Browns essay, I have hosted it on my Pinterest site and it can also be downloaded from JSTOR. https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/the-impact-of-firearms-on-Japanese-warfare-1543-98/ https://www.jstor.org/stable/2048846?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents When it comes to the sources he used Perrin acknowledges that he did not read Japanese, he used Japanese translators to help him decipher the ancient Japanese texts that he used as references, he also lists scholars that helped him along the way. He had a one year Guggenheim fellowship which allowed him the freedom to put everything together. This was not a book written by an amature out for a quick buck, it was a well researched project, he states that he had between seven hunderd to eight hundred source materials, of which about one hunderd and twenty are listed in the bibliography. He used many period illustrations as well, including selections from a 1595 gun manual of the Inatomi school, in the Spencer collection, New York Public Library, something that as far as I know had not been done before. Perrin did not need to be a Japanese historian, he had the services on many to help him and hundreds of references written by Japanese historians. He picked the sources he felt were important and put them together into a very readable and easy to understand book. -
The lack of visible lacing, I missed that, not something you see very often.
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Here are some images from a small armor display that took place in Japan, 2015. As far as I know there is not a Japanese armor forum in Japan. From what I have been told, Japanese collectors are reluctant to post images of the items they own online. Small groups meet and discuss their armor items in person, exhibits often prohibit photography so this view of a small local exhibit is unusual. Nothing fancy, just a few very nice armors and related samurai items. Something I noticed, the armors are displayed with muchi (whips) instead of the usual saihai etc. This shows what you can do in a small space with limited recources.
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Nice progressive views.
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Recent Purchase With Bad Feeling - Help Please
estcrh replied to Joefriday22's topic in Military Swords of Japan
I had a similar experience just yesterday, I was participating in an auction online, some very nice Indo-Persian swords but they were being sold in groups of two or three with the swords I wanted being mixed in with unknown (to me) European swords. So to bid on the sword I wanted you had to also blindly buy one or two swords I knew nothing about, very frustrating for me but a good way for the auction house to unload some less than desirable swords I guess. -
Since we do not have any photographs from that time period that can show what you are asking about we can only assume that it was possible for some types of armors to be this shiny, based on what can be done using basicilly the same materials that were available to Japanese armor makers during the Edo period and earlier. The zunari kabuto would be a good candidate due to having a lot of flat surface, some other styles would not be this reflective I think. A few years ago at the San Francisco sword show I saw a kabuto that I assumed had been restored, the black lacquer was that shiny. The owner assured me that it was original and old, when looked at very closely you you could see a few flaws, it must have been stored very carefully. Another zunari example.
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Your usually looking at an old kabuto that has some level of damage to the lacquer, here is a newly restored zunari kabuto.
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I have placed 13 Japanese armor related Pinterest boards into one link. There are around 3000 armor related images on these boards, many have very complete discriptions. Just click on the individual board in order to access the images. These photos are great learning and reference tools. Gusoku (full armors), dou/do (cuirass), kabuto (helmet), mengu (facial armor), tatami armor (folding / portable armor), auxiliary armor (additional armors), kusari armor (mail armor), individual parts /sangu (kote, haidate and suneate), 120 ken kabuto, Saotome kabuto, Jingasa (war hats), Period photos of samurai and photographers models wearing Japanese armor, armor by Fukutake Ichiro. https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/Japanese-armor-boards/
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No problem, at least you were smart enough to ask for advice.
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Javier, this armor is a modern (gendai) reproduction.
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Bryant, you are over thinking this, ignore the registration card completely, over the years I have recieve quite a few original cards along with the sword I purchased, I never gave it a second thought. I really doubt that the papers were forged, especially at the price you paid. Now you have learned a lesson, ask for advice BEFORE purchasing.
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That is exactly what I was pointing out, there is no reason that the loop on the right side is not at the end like the left side if it was originally just a banner.
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Currently at auction, very similar and it does not look Japanese to me but maybe some Japanese smaith copied the style, without better images there is no way to tell.
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It certainly was not meant to be hung this way as the mon would be off. See were the blue arrow is pointing, you would expect the loop to be at the corner, unless there is or was a pocket were the red arrow is pointing or loops that were removed. Is there a pocket in that area, possibly sewn shut or signs of loops that were removed such as small holes were loops may have been sewn along that area?
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Better images are needed, the color is way off and the details can not be seen clearly, inside photos would be helpful as well.
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I have a lot people ask me how to buy Japanese armor directly from Yahoo Japan. They want to cut out the middle man and be able to find and select what armor item they will buy rather than depend on Ebay or a dealer who in many cases gets at least some of their stock from Yahoo Japan already. If you think you know enough to find and bid on armor items or if you have someone to help guide you I say go for it, it is fun and not actually as hard as it seems, I have been buying directly from Yahoo Japan for years and have shown many people how to do it how including people who now re-sell items they buy from Yahoo Japan. The first thing you need it a link to yahoo Japan's armor category http://category.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/list/%E7%94%B2%E5%86%91%EF%BC%88%E5%85%9C-%E9%8E%A7%EF%BC%89-%E6%AD%A6%E5%85%B7-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF-%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3-%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3/2084259485/?select=06&p=%E7%94%B2%E5%86%91%EF%BC%88%E5%85%9C%E3%80%81%E9%8E%A7%EF%BC%89&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=2084259485&n=100&slider=0 I would suggest watching a few items that interest you and see how much they eventually sell for, this will help if you decide on how high to bid when you actually decide you want to bid on something. A few things to know....even if you are the highest bidded you may not win as the seller can abruptly end the auction before it is over if they feel the selling price is to low....auctions continue until someone stops bidding, which means that if someone puts in a higher bid than yours in the last few minutes or seconds the time re-sets and the remaining time will be several minutes more, so do not walk away at the last minute confident that you will win, also you will need a buying agent to bid for you and to ship any item you win to your home, you can not bid through Yahoo Japan...and you will need a Pal Pal account in order to transfer the amount of your bid to the buying agent. Buying agents...there are several buying agents available, I will list the three that I have used sucessfully but you can find your own, all agents charge a percentage of your bid and charge for shipping, this is their profit, you have to look at their fees which they list on their sites. In order to use a Japanese buying agent as I mentioned you will need a PayPal account, you will also need the item number of the item you want to buy, this can be found at the end of the items url and looks something like this 216744508 or like this o144505097, if you register with a Japanese buying agent you will enter the item number in their Yahoo Japan bidding page and the amount of your bid. You will need to transfer money to the buying agent before you can bid, if you do not win you can leave the money in your account for the next time or you can have it refunded back to you. Here are the buying agents I have used. My first recommendation would be Kelly Schmidt, you can reach him at schmidt_araki@ybb.ne.jp Kelly is a Canadian who lives in Japan, he has a mailing list that he sends out frequently that lists items he thinks will interest his customers, you can ask to be added to his list. Since Kelly speaks both English and Japanese he is often quite helpful when additional information is needed from a Japanese seller, I have used Kelly for a number of years, I have purchased some very expensive items through him and they all arrived safely to my house. If you find your own item instead of using his service to pick for you his percentage is 15%, otherwise it is 20%, this may seem high but compared to the markup you would pay a dealer it is not out of line. You need to arrange how you will pay in advance with Kelly. Kelly is not an expert and does not pretent to be so do not expect him to tell you if the item you want to bid on if worth it, you need to decide that on your own. My second recommendation is http://japamart.com/, one thing I like about them is that they will double you deposit for items that are not to expensive, which means if you deposit $500 they will let you bid $1000, if you win over your deposit you will have to transfer the balance owed to them within a few days. All items I have bought through them have arrived safely and they do communicate back when a question is asked. On more expensive items they will ask for you to deposit the full amount of your bid. My third recommendation is http://www.jauce.com/ This is the first agent I used and they are reliable but occasionally when I needed to add additional money to my deposit at the last minute their system took a long time and I lost the auction, also occasionally when their system was really busy I could not bid at the last minute and lost. Everything I bought through them arrived safely, if you plan on buying multiple items they will store them for quite some time and they will ship all of your items in a single box (if they all fit) which saves you shipping costs. They communicate ok when asked a question. I do use their Yahoo Auction search to initially find items as I like it better than the Yahoo search. If your register with them they allow you to save items you are interested in and I use this to keep track of items even if I will be bidding with another agent. http://www.jauce.com/category-leaf/2084259485?select=22&n=100 When looking at items, if the photos are not clear and detailed enough for you feel confident that the item is authentic and in good shape just skip it, there will always be another item, also there are some dealers on Yahoo Japan who regularly sell items, they provide very good, detailed photos, and carry good quality items, after awhile you will remember them, Kelly has a list of Yahoo Japan sellers on his email list with links, it is a good idea to learn which ones constantly sell good quality items and check their stock regularly. If you need help in evaluating an item you can post it here and you will probably get some good feed back or you can try sending one of the active members a private message asking their opinion. If anyone has any further questions you can ask here or send me a message.
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From the images provided this looks like a banner or wall hanging, unless the loops have been altered. A sashimono meant for wearing with armor would have a different type of loop configuration in order to stay in place on the pole. Here is a sashimono designed for a single pole, you can see that the loop is closed at the top, the loops on yours are all open, it would just slide down a pole unless I am missing something.
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A newly translated chapter on Japanese mail from "Nihon katchū no shin kenkyū" (new study of Japanese armor) by Hachirō Yamagami, 1928, the translation was paid for by a very generous Japanese armor enthusiast and freely given as a gift so that interested people could learn from it. There is some new information on Japanese mail (kusari), especially interesting to me is the information on Japanese riveted mail, it states that is was introduced by the West (this could mean Europe or even Indo-Persia) before the 1600s and that it was copied and made in Japan as well. Mr Yamagami was an author of several books on the subject of Japanese armor and a well respected researcher, as far as I know this is the first English translation of this chapter. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4a/f0/a1/4af0a1561b176483caec1fb76de92011.jpg
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Noel Perrin's Book "giving Up The Gun"
estcrh replied to estcrh's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Justin, can you post the paragraph, sentence, quote etc were he specifically said this? (Noel makes the claim they have up the gun) Perrin did get a Masters degree in English from Duke University in 1950 and went on to finish his studies at Cambridge with a masters of English literature in 1958, and he was a full professor at Dartmouth (does this make him an "academic?), I would assume he knew how to properly research and cite a book as he was an author of several books and many essays over the years. Were did you find the information about Perrin being a passivist, I was aware that he was interested in environmental studies but never read that he was passivist, are you sure that this was not a label that was applied to him by people who were critical of his work? As for being an "authority" on this subject of Japanese guns in Japan from 1543 to the end of the Edo period who exactly is the "authority" that should have written this book instead of Perrin? As far as I know there were and still are no authorities on this particular subject, the earliest researched work in English on this subject that I know of is "The Impact of Firearms On Japanese Warfare, 1543-98 by Delmer M. Brown, 1948, other than this I am not aware of any other major writtings until Perrins book, maybe someone here knows of one. -
Noel Perrin's Book "giving Up The Gun"
estcrh replied to estcrh's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Peter, I am not "offended" at all so stop worrying please, this is a discussion forum, I am simply attempting to have a discussion based on your and Jans negative feelings about this book which you both openly expressed here. You may be right or there may not be any right or wrong, it may be a subjective matter. I did post a link to some chapters in the book, maybe you can find some of the same citations you provided to pod casts and blogs there. I personally would like to understand what exactly "isnt right" about the book in your opinion, without being able to read the exact text that you feel is wrong it is not possible to do this. -
Noel Perrin's Book "giving Up The Gun"
estcrh replied to estcrh's topic in Tanegashima / Teppo / Hinawajū
Randy, you may be right but most people have no way of viewing the arguments you mention, they go on behind closed doors.