Marc BROQUIN

Yes Dirk, It is. Of course the intercrossing circles one. The HATAKEYAMA were given by ASHIKAGA TAKAUJI the YAMASHIRO, KAWACHI, KII, MUTSU and NOTO, because they were allies from the true beginning. But only KAWACHI HAKATEYANA remained with this mon. They were, many of them, Kyoto Kanrei and Shugo of many provinces. So they have been very influent. And it is reasonable, knowing that, to find many ONIN tsuba with their mon But I do not find the link with Wakizaka clan, only that the WAKIZAKA where given by the same TAKAUJI the AWAJI island. I am waiting some other answers and I will put mine on the site. Best Marc

Hello :D , The previous topic about Japanese Mon pushed me to add my little question . I have an ONIN tsuba with incrustation of this typical Mon : 2 intercrossing circles . After a little search, it appears that KAWACHI-HATAKEYAMA and WAKIZAKA clans had the same . Is there a link between these 2 families ? The other HATAKEYAMA, from MUTSU and NOTO seem not to have the same mon : a circle with to straight horizontal lines inside. Thanks for any info about this mon and family relation . Best to all :D Marc

Very nice items John, indeed. I see one coming from the Louvre Museum. It's a good idea for me to go there only half an hour by subway :D If you want to come... :D It would be a pleasure to make you visit this nearly unlimited museum. Best Marc

Hello, :D Having made a little research about this TAKASE EIJU, I can give some humble comments. Though there are several EIJU (or HIDENAGA pronounced the other way) (for example SEIRYUKEN EIJU FROM TETSUGENDO school), there is apparently one TAKASE EIJU. After Haynes, this KINKO artist , named FURYUKEN & also IZAEMON was living and active in MITO (HITACHI province) around 1775 to 1800. He was a gokenin, low grade retainer :? of the MATSUDAIRA Daimyo of MITO. He has been student of the first TAIZAN MOTOZANE and signed pieces at the age of 61 and 64. Ref. : MOSLE, #1586 & 1599 HAWKSHAW, pl. XXXVIII, #2278 WAKAYAMA, TOSO KINKO JITEN, W-43-L-1 WAKAYAMA, TOSO KODOGU MEIJI TAIKEI, W-III-95/96 The design of both FK and Tsuba seems to be copied one on the other but fit likely with Mito attribution. :| After Checking in WAKAYAMA, TOSO KODOGU MEIJI TAIKEI, W-III-95/96 signature of the FK could fit (I say could) with the different Mei figured at page 96 and not of page 95 because in this case the kao is definitely different). But in that case the kanji for EI is written the way of SEIRYUKEN EIJU and not TAKASE EIJU. Anyhow the Kao of page 96 top is very similar. So this piece should be submitted to shinsa to be more sure. For the Tsuba the complete mei, even if "made by the same artist", presents a mei which is not registered in all the books I have looked at. The design of the Tsuba fits with Mito attribution but seems to be a late "copy" of the figured caracters. I have already seen this practice on a set. The menuki were true and the tsuba not. In fact it is a very interesting case and would be thankful to know about the shinsa comments. Sincerely, Marc

Hello, :D Yes, you are right my dragon had already lost one of its heads. ; You are right it should have had eight heads. Sorry for that. I know that not too many people are realy involved in searching for old Japanese stories due to many causes. And I am not affected at all if there are only few answers. I hope to create only more interest for those legends. I have not resisted to tease you a bit and the result is magnificent. Many have answered.On the other side if you do nothing, no result can be expected. Mariusk at first thought to SUSANO-O no MIKOTO et John confirmed the determination with a lot of details. Bravo !! I can add a small description of the KOJI HOTEN from V.-F. Weber which reaches a lot that one of John : SUSANO-O no MIKOTO is a SHINTO primitive god, adored under the name of GOZU TENRO, as the god of ocean and moon. He has been born from the nose of IZANAGI and was the brother of AMA TERASU (godess of light). In his youth, he was turbulent and because of his disrespectful and outrageous behaviour, his sister AMA TERASU retired in a cave, and plunged the world in obscurity. For all his harms, the impetuous male had been forced out from the Celestial Kingdom. And coming down to Earth he arrived in Izumo land. He saw on a riverside two old people crying. Having them asked upon the reasons of their sadness, he was tought that they were king and queen of that land and that their last daughter will have to be driven near the big rocks in order to be devoured by a monster snake with 8 heads, the Yamato no Orochi and that this monster devoured already 7 of their children. SUSANO-O no Mikoto tried to console them as much as he could and promised to try to avoid this new misfortune. He prepared himself to fight the monster. He set height jars of sake on the seashore, went to hide himself behind the rocks and waited for the monster arrival. Towards the evening an height headed dragon appeared on the shore, saw the jars and attracted by the sake for which he had a serious inclination, plunged its height heads in the jars. Drunken by the liquid, it felt in a deep sleep. In one cut he severed the heads of the dragon. Then as he wanted to took the sword from the tail, a lot of clouds gathered above the hero : then he called the sword AMA no MURAKUMO no TSURUGI (Sword that gathers clouds). Therefore the nice KUSHI-INADA HIME had been rescued from an hawful death by the god SUSANO-O no Mikoto, who married her afterwards and they had many children. It is interesting to see that in the same tale, they speak first about a snake which after appears to be a dragon. The second thing : most pairs of dragon menuki are composed of one male and one female. The male has always a ken at the apex of its tail; The question is : is it a sign of remnant caracteristic due to this legend ? You are right John by writing that the dragon has only one head on the tsuba, that there are only 4 jars of ... sake ? and that the presumed SUSANO-O no Mikoto is strangely dressed, more chinese way than Japanese. But having it shown to some Japanese experts, they admit there was no possible other determination. But it is often the case in those tsuba from the 19th century the full scene is not complete. You can find a complete scene tsuba in the KOJI HOTEN Vol II p345 (tsuba from MINAMOTO SHIGEHIRO). The picture is a bit dark to be copied and figured in this forum. A lot of Japanese artists (CHOSHU in particular) used chinese dressed characters instead of Japanese ones, so I am not choked by that. Thanks for your cooperation and participation Sincerely Marc

Hello, :D Everybody is gone skiing or what !!! :lol: No answer ! This the story of a certain legendary figure wanting to kill the 7 heads dragon after having made him drunk with 7 jars of sake. Would it be more clear ? I will give you the clear story in a couple of days... Hurry up !!! Sincerely Marc

Hello, Nice set John ! Very good remounting and very nice tsuba. Congrats ! Why did you choose this color for the tsuka ito ? Best Marc

Hello, :D Not too much answers till now. No it is not CHORYO. So I will give a small complement : This is story with jars of sake. Good search. Best Marc

Hello, :D Just another little comment about the subject : Shishi male, female and baby shishi are often depicted with a waterfall. A Japanese legend says that the Shishi tested the courage of their youngs by throwing them in a waterfall. The fatal issue of this Spartan (from Sparta in Greece) test was considered as an evidence of their weakness. This scene is, after KOJI HOTEN, called Shi-Shi no saka otoshi. I bet our distinguished Japanese members to amend my message if any mistake has been made and if they can give more development of the legend. Sincerely Marc

Hello all, :D I took the time to share a little bit of my passion with you. I got years ago a nice tsuba without any pretention but interesting because of the subject. I will let you find what it is. Please for those who know directly without research, let the other members some days to dig in their books and research as well. Best regards and good search Sincerely. Marc

Hello, Some complements about that artist. According to Kinko Meikan, "YANAGAWA NAOMASA was a JOKO tsubako". It means a tsuba carver above the average. Obviously the work depicted in the first pic can not be that one of an artist above the average. And it is why he was well known that copist have signed with that name. Furthermore he has always written his name (according to my knowledge) with a kakihan or kao at the end. The presented signature has not. Anyhow the way the tail of the shishi is done ressembles the way the Yanagawa artists were carving it even if the fineness is not present there. And also the general structure of the design as a certain look similar to Yanagawa School. But here stops the comparison. Yanagawa school was founded by YANAGAWA NAOMASA the first (1692-11757). According to the Baur Collection book he was a pupil of the early Yokoya and of the Yoshioka. And it is said he combined the characteristics of both these schools. The Yokoya (YOKOYA SOYO I) were working for the Shogunal court in Edo in the classical Goto school style and the 4th Yoshioka master was a pupil of YOKOYA SOYO the first. Even if each school has certainely influenced the others and reciprocatively, there is apparently no link between HAMANO and YANAGAWA. In the 19th century (period of the depicted tsuba) most of the carvers have been influenced more or less by the various schools and it begins difficult to separate the styles. SHOAMI Schools have copied all the existing styles and this tsuba is probably from a Shoami carver. Aizu or not the characteristics are not obvious to follow a particular track. :? Hoping not to have been too much professoral. :D Sincerely, Marc

Dear KOICHI San, Many, many thanks for your help. Your's, friendly Marc

Hello, I bought a tsuba some years ago with an Hakogaki, I have decrypted most of the kanji but the third column from the right gives me still some trouble. Could you help me and confirm all the writing ? Very best regards I join the Hakogaki and for the pleasure the tsuba. Friendly your's Marc

Hello, I think it is a TEMBO school tsuba and certainly not a NARA one. TEMBO school tsuba are characterised by stamp marks with different kanji marks. Google TEMBO or TEMPO on the net and you will find infos. Best Marc

Hello, If we are speaking about what we pronounce Ginko biloba but should write Ginkgo biloba I don't think it is. PS : If somebody wants Ginkgo seeds, It would be a pleasure for me to send some (with how to proceed). It seems to me to be a couple of paeonies but the subject is treated differently as we are used to see. The pointed three branch leave is characteristic of paeony. The school seems IMO SHOAMI. KYO seems a good trend but the influence of Satsuma (refer to the famous flat bean tsuba)seems a possibility. The type of fine gold cloud over the flower is remarked in Kyushu Tsuba such as Kumagai. Much more "transparent" than in Jakushi. It's only an idea but classic Kyo Shoami are not IMO treated this way. Friendly your's Marc

Hello John, May I suggest, as a roman coin collector too, you go on a site called V-coins. You will find there a lot of coin dealers and if you make a search with chinese coins, I think you may find what you are looking for. Best Marc

Hello Mariusz, Just a little reminder I took from the Koji Hoten from W.-F. Weber : Shoki is a mythologiocal personnage from China. He has been integrated in Japanese mythology and seems to play the same role as Saint-Georges in Europe. He is the tamer and exterminator of all the devils. SHO-KI (in Chinese CHONG KW'EI) was after the Chinese tradition, the guardian angel of emperor Hsüan Tsong (in Japanese Gen-Sô) to whom he revealed in a dream his sad story. He had been, as he said, a student in law & political economy during the reign of emperor Han Wu Ti (in Japanese Kan no Bu-Tei), but he failed to the examinations and committed suicide, prefering death as life without title and decoration. The emperor being made aware of his sad life end, commanded to burry him with great honnor and at the charge of the state. In sign of gratitude for so much respects, Shoki's spirit would have promised to devote himself to the expulsion and extermination of all China's devils. That is for the origin of this tale. Both apperances are legit for Shoki : one with a large round straw hat (perhaps for outside the palace), one with a chinese bonnet (perhaps for court or inside palace) and the 2 "antennas" are perhaps the ends of the surrounding & attaching ribbons. A lot of other informations are described in the Koji Hoten (unhapilly in french for english readers), but too extended to give there a short recap. Best regards Marc

Hello Dennis, When you are writing EIJU, and asking if we know something about it, it is difficult to speak without context. But if it can help, the most known EIJU is certainly SEIRYUKEN EIJU from the TETSUGENDO SCHOOL. The signature is chiselled in sosho caracters and often followed by a gold seal with different appearances. This let think that many tsubako of the school have signed this way (SEIRYUKEN EIJU) and have added their own kinzogan mei (only a possibility) Regarding the fact of enlarging or modifying slightly the nakago ana of a tsuba to adapt to a sword tang the Japanese themselves have done it all along centuries (see the numerous tsuba with sekigane added afterwards), it is why I could accept it eventually if needed because the tsuba could fit exactly with other kodogus. But when you say it will damaged the signature. In that case, I would not do it. By the way your tsuba is nice as it is, keep it without alteration. This is only my opinion ... Best regards Marc

Hello all, I agree with the track of Clive. The general form of the tsuba may perhaps let think to Higo work, by a "certain" way, but the traces of a worm on each gourd let me think to AIZU SHOAMI, a certain tsubako named SHOAMI SHIGENOBU and particularly to the third one because of soft metal inclusions. Of course he is not (to my knowledge) known for vegetal representations like those gourds, but he has not very often changed his way of carving with worm traces. His tsubas are often pierced with sukashi in various designs. This is only an idea to bring, as we say, water to the mill. Friendly yours Marc

Hello Reinhard and all, I understand you found an evidence that the second character is CHO-HI. But I an still doubtful. There were five generals during the 3 kingdom war. To be a general at that time was an important position with special fastuous dresses. If the second character was CHO-HI, an other general, he would be dressed with much more ostentation. But this character is allways standing behind with low class dresses. This is astonishing, isn't it ? Best Marc

Hi Guido and all, I am always curious about chinese and Japanese mythology. And in order to get the answers I allways "dive" in my KOJI HOTEN from V.-F. WEBER. Of course I have not verified if all is written is correct but statistically it shouldn't be bad. It is said : ""KWAN-YU (in chinese) was a famous chinese general at the end of the second century, who has been deified in 1594 as War God under the name of KWAN-TI. Originally KWAN-YU was poor and he earned first his living by selling beans in the SHAN-SI province. He devoted all his free times to the study of military sciences. He by chance encoutered LIU PEÏ (in Japanese GENTOKU) who gave him the occasion to set to work his knowledge. In 184, after having taken the oath in a kind of fraternity with LIU PEÏ and CHANG FEÏ (in Japanese CHO-HI) in a peach garden belonging to the last one, KWAN-YU BECAME general and helped effectively LIU PEÏ to conquest the throne of the Shuh and to become one of the 3 emperors of China. The tradition reports that, during the quarrels preceding the enthroning of LIU PEÏ, TS'AO TS'AO tried to separate KWAN-YU from his 2 companions, and to make him suspect for LIU PEÏ. Having succeeded once to capture the 2 wives of LIU PEÏ, TS'AO TS'AO (SÔ-SÔ in Japanese, famous during the 3 kingdoms war) locked them up in a house and sent KWAN-YU for guarding them during the night, expecting from the last a guilty weakness in this delicate mission. But KWAN-YU made obvious his fidelity & loyalty towards his friend LIU-PEÏ, by remaining all the night, standing in a gangway leading to the room of the 2 women, guarding the door, a lantern in the hand and a sword in the other. KWAN-YU is very popular in Japanese Art. He is usually depicted as a tall chinese warrior, with determined face, and bearing a long bart which he caresses from one hand, the other hand holding a sword or a spear but more often a chinese halberd. he is often depicted with a servant behind him having a diabolic face and keeping the halberd for him."" So here we are: the second character could be only his servant I leave this approach to your comments. Friendly yours Marc

Hello Mark & Brian, I am coming back during my summertime upon old posts. And I think I found some valuable info about this particular FK whit those coral insets. When I saw it, I knew I had seen that somewhere. Look at the SARZI-AMADE LIMITED issue named TOSOGU, Treasure of the Samurai, pp.72 & 73. I am not pretending it is this kinko artist but there are some similarities. Best regards Marc

Hello Milt, I am the fly fishing partner of Jean. I come back on this old post of this hawk tsuba. I have one looking alike in the composition. Mine is signed by a MASAYOSHI, a tsubako from AIZU SHOAMI. MITO and AIZU SHOAMI are very near from each other, so it might be from that school. Best Marc

Hello Sencho, I come back on your old post related to this Fuchi you posted in 2007, as far as I progressively look at all the past discussions. The signature is after HAYNES GOTO SEI-I (H.08047.0). Working in Edo, he apprently was born in 1795 and signed a piece dated 1867. He was a student of GOTO SEIJO. Source W-372-U-1, W-405-L-1, W-II-187, Kp-168. Kao is not shown. It is the only one GOTO described in Haynes. I do not have this Wakayama book to look at the mei in order to appreciate if legit or not. But as far it is not a very well known GOTO, there is a big chance it is a true one. Best Marc

Hello Simon, I pass a part of my summertime to review the old discussions of the NMB I had not the time before to look at. I have cheked in the Haynes with these specific kanjis. The only one described with a recorded Kao is not this one. Apart this particular one, there are 6 other Kuniyoshi : 1°) one is a Tosa Myochin, ca. 1800, no Kao described, but worked in the style of Tosa Myochin. 2°) one is the 6th master of SUWA family school, ca. 1800, Higo, Kumamoto, no Kao described. 3°) one is JUSABURO KUNIYOSHI, ca. 1800, from Sekishu, Hamada (Iwami Province), no Kao described 4°) one is ca. 1700, from Karatsu in Hizen Province, follower of Masakuni 5°) one is ca. 1800, from Raku, Kyoto in Yamashiro province 6°) One is from Sendai in Rikuzen Province From my point of vue, it seems not to neither Tosa Myochin work nor Suwa Higo nor Sendai, nor Hizen. Remain Iwami and Kyoto. Difficult to say but I would bet for Yamashiro Kyoto. I have one FK from the Kuniyoshi with the recorded kao and it is not the same as yours definitely. Best regards Marc