Adrian S

Hi Ian, It is dated March 1944. I have it up for trade here. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15397 cheers,

Hi Chris, Just a quick one, this sword has a Star stamp on both sides. Haven't seen that before. It is a definate sleeper and straight from the vet's daughter. I wonder if this was done for any reason? cheers,

and some more cheers,

G'day Chris, no problem, here ya go cheers,

Thanks Chris. Yep, its gunome-choji, and it does seem decent enough with a better quality polish. Not my type of thing so will probably look to trade it. cheers,

thanks Moritasan, I wasn't sure. I'll look into Tsuguhiro.

hi guys, This one is for Chris, George or Dave. I've picked up a sleeper in 44 mounts. It has a star stamp and the mei seems to be "Tsunahiro Saku Kore" (attached). It is dated March 1944. Can't find anything on this smith, any of you guys have anything on him? I was wondering if he was a relative of the current Kamakura smith Tsunahiro who claims direct decent from Masamune. cheers, Adrian S

I'll have a go. Tegai Kanenaga

Thanks guys, I thought Suetsugu also. Wasn't sure so I appreciate your help.. cheer, Adrian

hi guys, don't have my books with me. can anyone translate this one for me. seems to be an oilie. cheers,

G'day Clive, For some reason those links aren't working, can you double check them please? I'm headed that way in a couple of weeks and would like to see this exhibition if possible. thanks,

Yes, but the problem is creating the nihonto dictionary import which will take time. not sure if the trila version would let me save all that work. cheers,

Hello to all, My poor wife is swamped with translating reference books at the moment. I have come across a progran called Atlas on the internet that can translate Japanese to English and has a dictionary builder and import feature. I was thinking the job would be easier if all the nihonto related words were imported into such a program. This progran is expensive , $1200 My question, is anyone out there using a progran that converts Japanese to English that has an import feature that is a more reasonable price? Any feedback to how good these programs work including Atlas? Is anybody scanning into a text reader, translating with a progran that has a nihonto vocabulary, and bingo instant access to the Japanese books. Any advice or experience in these matters would be helpful. Happy holidays,

hi guys, In case you missed it viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11735 Most AMS labs can now do C14 on a sword if you want it done. Lawrence Livermore University has a paper on the latest method , I can send you a copy if interested. The latest KTK Convention Catalouge has an article by Boris Markhasin where he has pieces of an old chukoto AMS C14 dated from pieces of the wood and laquer on the mounts as I recall. He had it done by the CAIS lab at the University of Geogria and confirmed by the ANSTO here in Sydney. The slice and dice chemical and structural analysis along with micrographic analysis has been done since the 1920s on swords. Refer to studies by Tawara Kuniichi in "Nihonto no Gakuteki Kenkyu". Unfortunately it falls a bit short on the chemical work due to the technology of the time. Happy holidays,

Hello John, Yes, quite right John. I was simplifying the answer a little, it is quite complex. I wasn't aware of any iron smelting sites in the Kurile islands, but since you mention it, it makes sense and needs investigation. I am currently working on possible links to Vietnam and India particularly for copper bearing magnitite. Very high copper figures are comming up in the Japanese studies. The trade routes are looking more complex than I first imagined. I would love to PM you for second opinions on some hunches. I have a friend who has been investigating iron smelter sites all over Asian, particularly Mongolia and China. He has been collecting slag and kera samples as well. Too bad we can't get into North Korea! cheers,

G'day Eric, Just to correct a point. All Asian steel production processes, with the possible exception of the Han chinese developments can be traced right back to Scythia. That is a very well known fact, Iron History 101. Both Carlo and I both agree that the likely introduction of steel smelting techniques come into Japan from the Korean penisula ( modified Scythian sand iron smelting techniques)and the Amur Valley (eastern Scythian iron ore smelting techniques) through two alternative routes. If you read Carlo's article in full, you will see he mentions it too. Merry Christmas,

G'day Keith, Eric, Wah and all, Thank you Keith, your post summed up the motivation of what I'm about to say completely. I feel the topic of the Oshu swordsmiths and the Soshu connection is too important and will not be taken seriously without presenting the body of work as a whole. I was quite wrong to drip feed some information and expect any constructive responses from doing so. You are quite right, I have questions and the answers will only appear when the research is finished. I'm going back to my research and you can all read about it when it is complete. Thank you to those who at least have an open mind and show some common courtesy. My apologies, you may all go back to cigars and cognac. Wah, do you know if the Masamune you mentioned passed NBTHK? Did they find any record of it? Any idea where it came from? I would love to see an oshigata and photos. As for the mei. I'm not surprised that it is different. cheers, regards,

G'day to all, Well, seems Guido has seen a lot of Masamune but can't answer some simple questions. I don't mean to upset people, I'm just trying to answer the questions asked of me as clearly as I can. I am known for being straight to the point, maybe I should try funny pictures next time For my part, I'm not giving up on research and study just because it makes me unpopular. cheers,

G'day Clive ( Hello Guido!), Clive, I have attached the big Hocho Masamune from Yasukuni Jinja, this photos is not distorted, that is how it looks ( maybe it is even outlandish! ) It is described in this book as "Meibutsu" so I would expect it has some historical provenance earlier than shinshino. That's why I added it to my list. I'm happy to hear it may be some different Masamune if we can find a reference. From memory it is about 45cm nagasa, its huge. I have my own opinions about it but I've got myself into enough hot water on this thread. Guido, can I ask a couple of questions. From all the Masamune you have seen and handled. 1) Do you consider they are ALL the same workmanship? 2) Do you consider they are ALL the same quality? 3) Do you have an explanation for your answers? Just want to know how you think. cheerio,

Well said!

G'day mate! Guido and all, By the way guys, I have no problem with anyone critising any hypothesis and presenting alternatives, lets keep it polite and move on, please. I really want to talk about more important issues. Guido, I'm am very glad to see your passion, I'm not taking your posts personally. I'm sure we will all laugh about this a little in the future. Now if I may, can I examine the issues in a broader light. To make it easier for replies I will use a notation form, I hope you don't mind. AS I SEE IT. 1) The sword culture, history, traditions and learning we have inherited from the Yamato line of the Japanese people is biased to suit Yamato pride. It was also in essence a creation of the Honami founders and there were political issues involved too. In other words , as they were the winners in a 1000 year struggle with the original inhabitants of Japan, they get to write the history. In this case the history of the creation and the geneology of the Soshu school. I'm going to call this the "Soshu Origin myth" 2) Scholarly opinions of this Soshu Origin myth has changed little since Edo times. 3) The Soshu Origin myth is not challenged openly by the Japanese as it is culturally taboo to do so. 4) Not much new evidence has come to light in the past few hundred years to challenge the Soshu Origin myth so even those scholars who looked a little harder into older texts (talking pre Muromachi here) and had some doubts, found it easier to follow the crowd anyway. 5) In Edo times, they didn't slice up or disect, microscopically examine, chemical analyis or Xray swords. They didn't dig up any old tatara remains either. They didn't analyse data from raw materials, ancient kera, blacksmith's slag, or do computer data mapping. They didn't have the easy access to a wide array of reference material and opinions that the modern computer age provides either. 6) Recent scientific advances and archeology has finally provided some "new" information which may challenge the Soshu Origin myths to some extent. Think Darwin 7) Assumptions made from attributions based on the Soshu Origin myth may soon be under challenge. 8> It is likely that the challenges to the Soshu Origin myth will come from outside of Japan, rather than inside Japan as non Japanese are not culturally handicapped to make such challenges. Guido, sure I have my own agenda, I'll openly admit it. My research has been into the science, I am not a scientist, but I am studying the questions that science is asking. Actually Mokusa is a side issue that is fascinating and I feel needs attention. Discussion please. cheers,

G'day to all, Luckily my businesses are not too busy at Christmas so I have some time on my hands. Here is the contents page of the first section from "Kamakura Moshiogusa " , by Mitsuharu Mamiya sensei, preface by Taeko Watanabe sensei ( Sano Museum director and acknowledged expert on Soshu-den) and Yuichi Hiroi ( Agency for Cultural Affairs and author ) Can one of our esteemed Japanese friends look this over and check it for errors as my wife is not 100% sure of some words. Contents Section 1. .Kamakura swordsmith before Shintogo Kunimitu 新藤五國光 1) Fallacy of the Kamakura swordsmiths common theory 2) Kamakura Shichi-go 鎌倉七郷 (seven villeges) and Yamanouchisho 山内庄 --- about Yamanouchisho 3) Connection between Oshu 奥州 swordsmith and Genji 源氏 --- about Oshu Mokusa 舞草 swordsmiths 4) Connection between Oshu Mokusa swordsmiths and Kamakura swordsmiths, and their work areas 5) Yamanouchisho Numahama-go 沼浜郷 (Numama 沼間) 6) Social status of Bushi group武士団 and swordsmiths around Kamakura Yamanouchisho at the early Middle ages --- the Yamanouchi-Sudo clan 山内首藤氏 and the Miura clan 三浦氏 7) Kamakura Bushi’s Oshu territories and rights of iron manufacture --- the Yamanouchi-Sudo clan and the Kasai clan 葛西氏 8 Style of Yamanouchi and Numama swordsmith, and Shintogo Kunimitsu --- Shintogo Kunimitsu and Houki 伯耆 swordsmiths --- the Miura clan Sawara 佐原流 style 9) Saimyoji-Nyudo-Tokiyori 最明寺入道時頼 (北条時頼) and Awataguchi Kunitsuna 粟田口國綱 --- about Onimaru 鬼丸 10) Kamakura Style (Soshu-den) 相州伝 11) Soshu Masamune 相州正宗 12) Conclusion Mr. Mamiya and his wife have passed away. I am going to try and find some relative to ask permission to serialize this book and post it to my website. In his introduction Mr. Mamiya says that he has studied hard on his research, it has been his life's work and although not complete he feels he needs to publish while he still has time. He also says that in the future he hopes someone will continue his work. cheers,

G'day Reinhard and all, I hate repeating myself, so I'll make it as clear as I can and hopefully no-one else will make me say it again! My opinion is, AFTER the time of Masamune, even his own students jiba became bolder, stronger and even garish (think Hiromitsu, Shimada etc. ) BEFORE Masamune, the jiba and the sugata was more sedate. When Masamune made swords like for example the Hocho Sukashi, or indeed the Mega Hocho (my description of the huge Hocho in Yasukuni Jinja ) , Bushi of his time, especially in Kyoto may have considered it outlandish ( from the out lands ) and rugged ( roughly irregular ) in appearance. Particular the court nobles who had a preference for quiet Heian jiba and sugata pieces. I'm not being negative here, and I was not saying bad quality! I appreciate serious inquires into my research, suppositions and conclusions please. Can we leave the sarcasm and the petty points behind and be polite. Thank you,

G'day Reinhard, Let me see, in hand three recognized, another five I would consider genuine but unrecognised, including some owned by noted scholars, another two which are debatable in my eyes, but I do bow to the opinion of the owners. There is one I won't count, some will know that one. Thank you!! cheers,

G'day Keith, Actually , Carlo's article and the thread on the other forum made me decide to put a few ideas out there ( blame Ford, he made me do it! ) As I have already said, most of this article is just a reflection of what others are saying and have said before. I'm just putting it together with some of my own pet theories. I haven't contacted Carlo yet, but have posted to the other forum some responses to their questions as well. I have invited him to contact me as I have some more information for him for his article also. We are both on the same road and the road goes all the way back to Scythia. I have just got a copy of the book "Kamakura Moshiogusa" by Mr. Mitsuharu Mamiya who I quote in my article. I want to find out more of what he says about General Hatakeyamauji and the relocation of Mokusa smiths to Kamakura. When I do some more research into this I will update my article with the new information. For those still following this thread, I have so far translated the the Preface, the Introduction and the Contents page ( actually my lovely wife has :D ) Mr. Mamiya lived in Kamakura and spent his whole life researching the Soshu school. The Preface is written by Sensei Watanabe of the Sano Museum and Yuichi Hiroi of the Agency for Cultural Affairs, so this book has to be taken seriously in my view. If anyone is interested I'll post the contents page, it looks to be fascinating and full of new information. cheers,