R_P

Apparently the person who gave you this read your tastes like tea leaves in a cup, they just knew, divine provenance.

No no, let's not start interpreting my statement incorrectly. What i said is that particular sword is a paperweight, your sword. Not every sword below Juyo. Realistically a sword must go Hozon, to Tokubetsu Hozon before going Juyo so your statements are nonsensical. Its just the particular sword that you now own (hopefully for a very long time). Keep it safely off the market please.

Drama queen

I cannot thank you enough! On behalf of the community new and old I say a huge thanks for removing this paperweight from the market and making sure no new collectors fall victim to the temptation. You've done everyone a huge favour, Arigato.

We must be very careful with spreading information that is definitely not true in the context of what can pass Juyo, we don't want people submitting things and being charged fees for failures.

Ok so after seeing the better images on Aoe5 I see A Lot of slight kizu, thing that will be unexpected for a sword of this age but just not appropriate for top level quality Aoe, still a nice sword though! Most of the issues are within the Boshi and Hamon and top half of the sword. Shame for such an elegant blade, but still wonderful.

Hokke was assuming I had judged their collection and others, impossible to do if they haven't shown them. Not sure why you're shooting from the hip @Tsuku The OP was never about anything you're both going on about, how about we let the post rest hm?

Ah yes but there is no control to compare, have any of you spoken or posted about you collection? No? So your statement is clearly a personal feeling deep deep down...

I like Aoe3 too but I do see the love for #5 yep!

Aoe5 "Oh La La, Mi Amore!" Yep that is a nice Aoe, Has exactly the features one would want, in terms of the quality is there a link to the listing to see the pics in detail. I am sorry I know this is a flawed exercise because when posting the pics they lose the HD, please let me know. But I LOVE it from what I see so far.

No one was looking down on anything or anyone.

Ok i guess it's a flawed proposition @Brian please delete this thread 🙏 with my best intentions

really? no takers?

Well, I think I and we have said as much as we're going to say here. I hope everyone has at least seen some positives and I wish everyone the best of luck, happiness and success in their collecting goals. For new collectors in Nihonto I hope the journey takes you to Japan and back and brings life long memories

The links are there for better images and on Aoe3 a larger file, I think checking on a laptop might yield better results. Also the main OP is on quality and traits that can be discerned, no shopping involved

Hi So I have been told the images are terrible, sorry bout that, links added and pics updated

I hope this is advice for only swords yes?

Ok last one Aoe4 in the pic files. Fyi Daimyo blade Measurements Nagasa - 69cm Sori - 1.5 cm Hamachi - 3.05cm Kasane - 0.54 cm Description: Jigane - Koitame hada and komokume mixed with jinie with sumihada Hamon - Koniedeki suguha with kasha and yo Personal take Overall Sugata is good. The Nakago is executed to a satisfactory level and leads nicely with the Bo-hi into the Nagasa. The hamachi is a bit small in this one. The polish is not the best but the jigane looks to be relatively consistent but hidden behind a bad polish. That is a shame given the Kasane at 0.54cm. I think the Hamon is executed beautifully. The sword has provenance and is docuneted so has the historical element going for it. Overall I think it has pedigree so commands respect but is not necessarily the best example of mumei Aoe in this condition. https://www.aoijapan.net/katan-mumei-aoe-daimyo-ookubo-familys-sword/#google_vignette @Robert S Your personal take?

Hi, yes i will add them if they were made available from the listing online but if the sword was presented without I cannot help that. This is what people need to deal with online though, navigating hard territory. Since you are here, will you comment on what you see please? If you download the image it is quite detailed.

Here is Aoe3 in the pic file name Measurements: Nagasa - 71.2 cm Sori - 2.1 cm Hamachi - 3cm Kasane - 0.66 cm Jigane - Chirimen hada with tight mix of itame and mokume Hamon - Sugu Personal take: The Nakago on this sword is done with utmost care. The shaping on the Nakago as well as the patination shows conservation and a regard for the removal of a large part of the swords body. Because of the care on the Nakago the swords sugata leads gracefully from Nakago to Kissaki and is of Nanbokucho sugata. The Bo-hi leads very nicely across the mune and into the body of the Nakago uniformly with elegant consistency. The Jigane is also executed consistently and would be archetypal for Chirimen on Aoe. The suguha hamon is uniform and also done consistently. In my personal opinion this sword is polished beautifully, the sword is elegant and it is indicative of high level Aoe work, it shows excellence. @Robert S personal take please?

Here is Aoe2 in pic file Measurements: Nagasa - 70.5 cm Sori - 1.8 cm Hamachi - 3.24 cm Kissaki - 2.17 cm Mune Kasane - 0.76 cm Description: Jitetsu - Itame Hada with Jinie. Chikei and Utsuri. Hamon - Koniedeki suguha with Ko-Ashi and yo work. Notice no mention of Chirimen Hada.... My personal take: The sword has an Ok sugata and presents itself proudly with large width at the Hamachi and prominent mune kasane. There is no Hi on the blade and it is Osuriage keeping a single mekugi ana that is in period with the nakago. The Nakago suriage is done generically and without much concern for the suguta or much care. The nakago leads well into the nagasa and we can see a consistent Hamon (generic to Aoe) leading up the whole sword. The chirimen hada is extremely rough and from the hamachi up to the first 3/4 of the blade you see satisfactory activity but it the tapers out and is inconsistent toward the later 1/4 moving toward the Kissaki. Any mention of utsuri is hidden behind a very old polish and cannot be fully appreciated in this condition. There are non serious flaws in the Shinogi-ji and yokote area. Overall is will say this is not the best quality but better than Aoe1. https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-mumeiaoe/ @Robert S Your personal view sir?

So @Robert S Let us embark on an interesting exercise (it will be short lived i think) on which of the Aoe below are of better quality than the other, which and why one is more Aoe than the other, which was made by a master? So we will be presented with 4 swords from Aoe school Kaji of the Nanbokucho period, all of them will be Mumei and all within acceptable measurements for daito. Most important they all came from the same shop in Tokyo and they were all photographed by the same photographer. I will post the pics so they can be downloaded and everyone that wants to participate can and we can see how most people online get to evaluate a sword with such limited information and standard pics. Perilous for sure! We begin with sword 1 labeled as Aoe1 in pic file. Measurements: Nagasa 70.9 cm Sori 1.6 cm Hamachi : 2.89 cm Kissaki width 2.12 cm Mune Kasane 0.51 cm The description: Jigane - Koitame hada and mokume hada mixed with jinie and Chirimen hada. There is Utusri. Hamon - Niedeki Sugu with Ashi and yo Boshi - Midarekomi and Kinsuji My personal take: The Suguta is ok. When I see how this sword has been made suriage I can appreciate how it has been done so the Hi lead nicely into the new Sugata. There is red rust on the Nakago and that shows perhaps the previous owner did not care very much for it (speculation). It could have been stored incorrectly and this is the result. The sword has 3 clear Mekugi ana and they conform to the age of the sword however red rust has infiltrated them also. There is slight damage under the Habaki area in the omote and it looks recent. I do not think the sword is in a good polish but the seller describes it as so. The omote is clearly the better side for activity in the Jigane and the Hamon but there is Bo-hi and Soe-Hi on the omote and not on the ura, weird. The sword has damage or Kizu on the Omote half way up and it is not described in the sellers description. To see the Archetypical Chirimen Hada we can only really discern a clear picture from the omote side however the Hamon on the omote is in conjunction with varied Aoe hamon and not the archetypical tight Sugu we expect to see on either side of the sword. Any mention of Utsuri is hard to see in this sword, perhaps the polish is not as grand as stated by the seller. The overall condition is not one of appreciation. Given this polishing a sword in this condition would be good but there is a 0.51 Kasane on the sword so we might be risking the integrity of the Nagasa, maybe. Overall I would say this is very poor representation of Aoe. @Robert S What do you think on this one? I would love other collectors to chime in on their feelings based on what we get online and how this can be hard. Perhaps my personal take is wrong and that is where it is fun happens. https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-mumeiattributed-as-aoe-school/

So yeah, No. I do not agree with the dichotomy in this last statement. You can have a "Master Craftsman" but not at 2000 USD. You can hold a really battered and broken Kotetsu and say its 2000 but its not of his quality, might even be gimei right? So I will do a new post where we can do a small exercise and I hope to have your participation as the first commentor please. Masters are masters and then there is everything in between.

Please don't make this about me and what i have done, people asked what were the mistakes and I simply answered. I think if someone is coming into this new and they have 5k why not wait for a bit more, save more whilst studying, we do this for other parts of our lives, we save for school, we save for houses for cars for engagement rings for holidays, why not for you first and maybe last nihonto. While saving you're still learning. Also Alex you can imagine when letting go of those 15 swords the painful financial loss, so it was not a good feeling in any case, I lost swords and I lost money. This is not overly complicated, the message is the same as my hard lesson. Take time to study, study everything possible, meet with your community and see as much as you can, find mentors and finally when you believe you're ready jump in. All im saying. Super simple really.

For me a good sword is a sword that is most representative of that given Kaji or indeed that smith. If you are seeking Yamato, and Shikkake for example you would want something that is archetypal of the best known Shikkake examples we have in books and in hand to study or see. Now how you'd approach this is based on the level of information you have, this information will also be different for Tanto or Daito, etc. So after you have this information you apply it to the purchase process, however, this is where you will meet bad quality Shikkake and good quality Shikkake. You can still see certain elements of the archtype in bad quality steel, but you will also not get the real story of Shikkake. The question of buying quality is very much individual and based on having seen what good quality should look like. If you want diversity then please by all means, I have tried and I can tell you it's not possible. Its a never ending sea and you'll end up with a hodgepodge of blades some will be good, others ok and some bad but none will represent the length and breadth of Nihonto. I don't think the question of who are you collecting for is relevant, being a collector by its definition is personal. Again im not saying do this don't do that, im saying if you're new to this study and focus and go into this armed with a good budget and find your footing first.