When Necessary

And sold for ¥205,000. Good luck putting that through shinsa.

Not at all. It's entered a last minute bidding war - presumably amongst people who want to offer this to the foreign market sans papers.

Nice blade though.

Extremely well put, Michael. This forum needs more like you. You can own the best but don't look down upon those who, of necessity, collect more humble examples.

Very nice find, Brian! 😬👍

Perhaps 'Curious Chamber' should sell chamber pots - he's certainly full of what goes in them.

Not John, but that is logical given the way that Gunto were worn on the officer's belt. This is Ohmura-san's main example:

Don't bite. The OP is just looking to fire up another bitchfest and get it shut down.

Understood. 👍

C'mon mate, I wasn't doing that either and you must know that. Everything else you said above - total respect. I hope you find more pieces that give you pleasure in your collecting.

"If you think a rusted piece of iron is more important because of age, then maybe you should go to those old battlefields and collect a few rocks. They also have a great tale to tell. So do the nails in old castles.If you think a rusted piece of iron is more important because of age, then maybe you should go to those old battlefields and collect a few rocks. They also have a great tale to tell. So do the nails in old castles." I'm already on it Brian - thanks for the great tips! While I'm at it, would you like me to mail you over some Sekigahara rocks and nails from Osaka Castle? It might give you something to look at as I can't imagine that you're exactly spoiled for choice regarding good quality Nihonto in South Africa.

I think @Jacques is right. Looks different to me.

Well, the sword arrived and it's so nice that I'm going to put it in for the next Tokuho shinsa. (Who knows, if I bung them an extra few thousand yen, maybe they'll also paper my 'rocks from Sekigahara'?)

Absolutely beautifully put.

Well said!!! (Roberta Shewen was bloody scary, wasn't she?)

Sometimes, an abundance of information is a double edged sword (no pun intended). In the 1950s and 1960s, when returning servicemen or their families started parting with their souvenir swords, they let them go for peanuts and even the junk shops who bought them often did so only for their scrap metal value. Ron Gregory once told me about visiting a man who had responded to his advert asking about Japanese swords. As he approached the man's front garden, he could see a makeshift picket fence made out of rusting blades, stuck point down in the earth with wire running through the mekugi ana. According to Ron, many of them were old blades but the dealer had stripped them of their brass, gunto fittings as the metal was worth more than the intact swords. For Ron, even with his already burgeoning knowledge about what was 'good' or 'bad', he would delight in finding a Muromachi Jidai katana signed "Bishu ju Osafune Sukesada" because of the sheer history it represented, having survived a civil war (when it was probably expected to be destroyed in battle) and a later global conflict. Nowadays however, that same Sukesada would be derided (certainly on this forum) for being a mere 'Kazu-uchi-mono" (数打ち物) and not worthy of serious consideration - even though it was constructed on a par with, or better than, most European swords of the same time period. (I wait to be - inevitably - corrected on that last point.) So, a newcomer to the hobby now thinks "Kazu-uchi-mono are junk because the 'experts' say so - I've got to aim higher or it's not a 'real' samurai sword". The irony here, of course, is that the Sukesada is far more of a samurai sword than some 'toy poodle' of a wakizashi with all Goto mounts made for a Yoshiwara frequenting merchant of the 18th Century. The point I'm trying to make is that age and history have definitely taken a backseat to maker and condition. I'm sure that many of you - when you first started collecting all those decades ago - felt a raw thrill of excitement at handling a a weapon which had first been wielded on a battlefield five or six centuries before. The sheer sense of history in that piece of metal overcame all blemishes, chips or flaws; it was a direct conduit to the past. Someone, at sometime, had handled that same object and knew that it represented life or death for them - it was literally an extension of their very psyche as a warrior. Now however, a beginner would buy that self same Sukesada, post it excitedly on this forum or similar - and have it picked apart, negative point by negative point, because it wasn't a "Yosōzaemon no jō Sukesada" (which they would probably never be able to afford). No wonder they give up, disheartened and sell it on. Sadly, I hear the learned appreciation of fine art critics from the 'experts' and 'connoisseurs' in this field, but none of the wide-eyed, child-like enthusiasm which led us all here in the first place.

Yes, I think it's dying - quite literally in a lot of cases (look at the number of key players who have passed within the last 5 years alone). Most seasoned collectors are themselves well into their twilight years now and younger generations just don't seem willing to put in the effort to learn. Instead, there is a growing veneration by Gen X for the cheap, Chinese katana-shaped objects proliferating on the US and European markets. Also, just how many shoddy fakes does this forum have to expose where the (often young) OP's could have saved themselves money with even the tiniest amount of research? Unfortunately, lots of those burned by their first unwise purchase will just give up and collect plastic lightsabers instead. Similar situation; I used to collect rare first edition books - now try to find a young person who reads anything which isn't on an iPhone. Books are already a dead hobby and, sadly, I think that antique swords are headed that way too.

Personally, I've never bought anything for its mei or papers, only because I liked it a lot and could afford it at that time. I even knowingly bought a gimei tanto and I still love studying its wealth of activity. Frankly, I don't think nor care about the next generation; I will never have children and will not leave anything behind for either dealers or museums (I have far more antiques than just swords). Each item in my various collections can take their chances in the world, just as they did before I purchased them. I'll be dead and no longer concerned. No doubt a highly unpopular opinion but I'm far from popular on this forum anyway and have no friends here to lose. (So spare me your lectures about 'custodianship'.) As to the subject of this thread, I think one relative point which has not yet been made is the diminishing availability of good starter pieces for beginners. In the late 40s to early 70s, bring back swords were everywhere, particularly in the US. Prices were low, quality was potentially very good and nothing had been 'tinkered' around with yet. This, plus the fact Nihonto collecting for the lower-income individual was an untapped market, led to an abundance of opportunities to amass a very decent collection in a relatively short period of time and without expending a fortune to do so. Knowledge subsequently blossomed from the efforts of such early collectors as John Yumoto in the US and Ron Gregory in the UK. Contrast that with today. New, young collectors have a whole (usually utterly ludicrous) folklore regarding Japanese swords which lures them in and then an ocean of cheap Chinese knockoffs to negotiate before deciding, finally, that only the real thing will do. They are then faced with either low level shysters like the 'Frankenstein Monkey' or serious dealers charging serious money. No wonder then that they often forgo saving for an item whose worth will only become truly apparent after years of study for the quick-fix of an instant purchase based on whatever limited knowledge they have thus far managed to accrue . There's no actual taboo on saving for something - it's simply human nature to be impatient, a failing which, admittedly, has been greatly exacerbated by our greedy, 'must have it yesterday' consumer society.

This quotation from E-Budo.com is the best explanation I've come across for relative blade/body ratio. (It is from a thread on 'Tsuka length' but I can't access the website anymore to make an attribution to the specific author. Thus, apologies if he/she is reading this.) "Takamura Sensei said to measure a sword for someone, have them hold the sword with the right hand grasping the tsuka right at the edge of the fuchi. Relax the arm. The kissaki should almost touch the floor. For him this meant a 25-26 inch blade. The tsuka should be a half inch from the forearm indention above the elbow. So given his physique this dictated around 11 inches. a ratio of 1:2.5. (He trained in Jikishinkage ryu from the line of Sakakibara, known for longish tsuka's) Lets do the same for me, a whole foot taller than Takamura at 6"2". If I hold a sword just touching the fuchi and relax my arm, a 27" to 28" inch blade almost touches the ground. But my forearm is so long that this formula dictates a 14 inch tsuka. Wow! That changes the ratio to 1:2. Our differing physiques dictate this difference. Takamura cracked up when he realized this! (Resulting in the "Saru Ken" comment) . Keep in mind that if I practised Kage ryu or Toyama ryu this formula would be inappropriate due to the technical requirements of those specific ryu. For Yanagi ryu it works out great! An interesting fact pointed out by Takamura Sensei concerned the phenomonon that about 90% of peoples hands are approximately the same distance from the ground despite a great variance in height. This explains why the average length of a katana in most schools was around 27 inches. Despite my being a whole foot taller than Takamura Sensei, my blade length was within an inch or two of his. Obviously my longer arm length made up the difference which in turn resulted in the longer tsuka when measured by the dictates for his style. There are obvious exceptions in style of swordsmanship and size of practitioner at work here."

Dear Geraint, Thank you. For what they're worth, these are the photos from the auction. (And yes, that weird, 'woven', sageo is coming straight off!) Personally, I prefer blades in shirasaya but I can get one made for this easily enough. The koshirae looks modern but the habaki is very good quality; two piece and gold foil wrapped.

Hello Hoshi, In retrospect, you are probably right and this person is outside Japan, hoping to take advantage of those without easy access to the Japanese auction sites. If so, they are at least clever enough to word their statement of 'integrity and philosophy' with a smattering of grammatical errors and odd syntax, similar what you would expect from a native Japanese. Regarding buying from YJP, I will sometimes take a chance, especially with tsuba - but never eBay. Yes, I've been burned a couple of times but I've also had success; the Suruga no Kami Kunimasa blade of mine which just passed Tokuho was from Yahoo Auctions. It had an old NBTHK green paper, which is also a widely perceived warning sign but I trusted my own judgement and, on this occasion, it paid off. One word of advice about Japanese auctions, avoid the dealers with dozens of swords each week. Go for private individuals who might be selling off grandpa's 'old stuff' or the 'Ma and Pa' antique shops out in the sticks. They usually don't mess about with swords to make them look 'more saleable' and only look to make a fair profit. Thanks again, for pitching in on the conversation!

I noticed that the NMB has several new people who are really champing at the bit to buy their first Nihonto and I didn't want them getting scammed by individuals like 'Bladetique' (I never get tired of typing that name; it sounds like a 1970s kung fu disco).

I just won a signed and dated shinshinto katana on Yahoo for its lowest asking price of about eighteen hundred dollars. Whoopee. Details for the curious: Mei 筑前国住源信国美直　Minamoto Nobukuni Yoshinao Dated 慶應二年八月吉日 August 1866 Nagasa 70.7cm At the same time, 'Bladetique' in Japan had copied the auction and were hawking it to unwary foreigners for nearly double the price. This is rather ironic as 'Bladetique' (who has 100% feedback), states the following in their eBay profile: "However, I believe that the key to acquiring a good blades is to pay a reasonable price from the beginning and then rely on your own sensitivity and the opinions of people you can trust to help you make the best purchase." Noble words but ignoble actions - new collectors please be warned.

I get a downvote for attempting to give some entirely well-intentioned advice? I can only presume that I must have frustrated someone who had hoped to relieve the OP of his find before he found out what it actually was.

Read these, especially the first one. You join the Internet Archive for free and then you can borrow these - just like a conventional library. The connoisseur's book of Japanese swords : Nagayama, Kōkan, 1920- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive FACTS AND FUNDAMENTALS OF Japanese SWORDS : a collector's guide : NAKAHARA, NOBUO : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive