Jake6500

Wow Ian, that is actually astonishing. I never imagined such a finely detailed landscape would even be possible in a Tsuba. Gives me a new-found appreciation for Soten style.

Tony, the number of times I have seen this exact debate/discussion play out on the forum must be approaching the double digits!

Ahhh, I see. I just assumed the picture was of Yoshimori 2nd generation as it was on the same page as a 2nd Gen tsuba, but I see now that it is of Shomin. I see what you are saying about the kao being a close match to the 1st generation Yoshimori. I'm not sure it is an exact match as on close inspection (400% zoom) there are what appears to be some tiny differences on the left side such as an additional stroke in the bottom left in your linked example and a small floating stroke top left in Viktor's piece. Coupling these small discrepancies (and they are quite insignificant) with the differences in the mei kanji which seem to more closely match the 2nd gen. example I provided and I'm not sure I could comfortably assert which gen. Yoshimori produced this piece. I think we could definitely assert however, that it was produced by one of the two and is a genuine, high quality piece from the Unno lineage. If it is gimei...Well, it'd be one high quality gimei piece... In any event, I think it's a fantastic set. Here is a side by side with the differences highlighted/circled... I didn't highlight this in the image but having another look, the kao also looks a bit straighter in the example you linked and a bit more curved in Viktor's piece. You can really see this small difference in the loop in the bottom right and the straightness v.s. curvature of the horizontal line that runs through the middle of the kao.

Jakushi is an interesting direction for further inquiry and I definitely see a resemblance there David. Jakushi also loved their landscape designs... Reverting to the topic of Hamano menuki here are a few more examples floating around out there... http://nihonto.us/SHOZUI MENUKI DM000.htm https://japaneseswor...enuki-signed-shozui/ From these links we see that Hamano artists did sign the back of menuki in a similar fashion to Jack's menuki (as did many other schools), however I have still yet to see any examples of Hamano school works that depict a landscape for a landscape's sake... If that makes sense. There is basically always some kind of additional focus with some sort of central figure in every Hamano piece I have seen whether it is a culturally significant animal, a mythological character/creature, a Chinese sage or a general from the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. Sometimes it might even be as simple as a merchant riding a horse through the rain. However, I am yet to find any Hamano works that only depict landscapes whether they be menuki, tsuba, etc. That does not necessarily prove anything, however it leads me to err more on the side of caution.

These are fantastic pieces, particularly the kashira. I am a sucker for mythological designs such as tengu so I am very jealous!! A little digging turned up another piece with what I think is a closer match to the mei on your set... https://www.legacysw...lio/yoshimori-tsuba/ If I am correct, this mei belongs to the second generation Unno Yoshimori which would make it a Meiji Period piece. The website I linked even has a photo of this Meiji Period artist: Regardless of whether it dates to the first or second generation, I think it's awesome! How did you come across this set? I need to start looking in the same places you are!!!

I wonder if this sort of a design has been copied or repeated specifically in the vicinity of shrines known as Hanami viewing spots... Perhaps this design is a commemorative design of sorts. Having a look at the one I found again there are some subtle differences which make me think both are probably authentic with similar origins, perhaps made in the same area or by members of the same school. I am of the mind that these tsuba were probably made for commercial reasons in the later Edo Period at a time where the production of goods began to accelerate and I have a feeling they might have been marketed to the growing merchant class... Little reason for this assertion besides a hunch and some background knowledge about Edo Period Confucianism but the repeated design, the quality of the work and the more affordable materials lead me to believe these tsuba might not have been produced for vassals from samurai households, but rather for a new and emerging consumer market. It has been suggested that woodblock tsuba design books existed in the late Edo Period that customers could view and make selections from when commissioning tsuba (there's a thread about it on the forum somewhere) so I wonder if this design existed or still exists in a late Edo woodblock catalogue somewhere... It would explain the design similarities and would seemingly match the likely period of production if so...

You are correct that the tradition extends back centuries Florian, however I think the preponderance of visual art (as opposed to the literary works that inspired Edo Period works) depicting the tradition emerged in substantial volumes in the latter half of the Edo Period. Personally I am quite doubtful the tsuba is from the Genroku Period (which is a very specific period to specify and I question the basis for such a specific dating). Hanami viewing was also only popularised in the Edo Period amongst common folk under the reign of Tokugawa Yoshimune who planted trees for the public in 1720 16 years after the end of Genroku, so the idea that the tsuba would have been made before (or even during) the Kyoho era seems unlikely to me. More likely it was made around or after the ukiyo-e explosion led by artists such as Katsushika Hokusai and Utagawa Hiroshige who began to feature Hanami in their woodblock works beginning in the late 18th century and moving into the 19th. To me any date prior to the 1780's or 1790's would be quite improbable whilst anything prior to 1720 should probably be disregarded entirely. I'm definitely open to the idea that this tsuba is a mid-late Edo Period work but I'm doubtful we're looking at an object from the first half of the Edo Period. The shape of the Hitsu-Ana alone may not be a fool-proof means of dating either as artists did sometimes mimic older styles / designs using old-school Hitsu-Ana shapes, Mokko-Gata, etc to make their works look older than they actually are. EDIT: Upon doing some digging, there are some suspiciously similar tsuba floating about so I wouldn't be surprised if they're being made to look old and being marketed to tourists as souvenirs... Hanazono Shrine being a cherry blossom viewing spot, it would be the perfect place to market such an item. Although, the one I found is not an EXACT match, so they may just be two similar tsuba of similar origins... https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY

Hi Jack, I want to start off saying I am less confident about identifying menuki than other types of Tosogu (they are the one type I don't currently own in my collection) but I have fallen pretty deep down the metaphorical Hamano rabbit hole recently and I am a tad doubtful that these are authentic Hamano works... The artistic quality / clarity of the piece and the theme don't seem to align with those typical of Hamano works... A lot of Hamano works revolve around historical, mythological or folklore based themes. In some cases designs will curve over the edge of the piece (though this may not always apply, or may not apply to menuki), the quality of the metal should be evident at a glance, the linework fluid and detailed... Here are some examples of Hamano menuki for you to compare to... https://www.bonhams....od-18th19th-century/ https://nihontoart.c...ki-by-hamano-shozui/ My current profile picture is also of a fuchigashira in my collection signed Hamano Shozui. Despite it being of fairly high quality, it still isn't clear whether it is an authentic Hamano work or gimei as it was not uncommon for artisans in the Edo Period to use the name of more established/renowned artisans. You always have to inspect a piece in hand to know the quality for sure as pictures don't always tell the whole story, but respectfully I am doubtful that your menuki are authentic Hamano work based on the pictures you've provided... Still a nice piece of history to have in your possession, assuming you didn't overpay for them! PS. I do also find it a bit odd that the back of your menuki are missing pins and are not hollow. Not sure how common/uncommon this is for Edo Period menuki but I'm sure someone on the forum will have greater expertise on this.

Your tsuba appears to depict a Sakura design (cherry/sakura blossom) based on the flowers. The theme is the tradition of Hanami (cherry blossom viewing). Here is an ukiyo-e that I think matches the theme of the tsuba and shows clearly what the part at the bottom is meant to be... This ukiyo-e depicts cherry blossom viewing at Edo Castle and was produced in the Meiji Period as depictions of the inside of Edo Castle were banned throughout the Edo Period. This means it is likely that your tsuba is also from the Meiji period or later, perhaps inspired by Meiji Period works. The particular ukiyo-e artist who created the woodblock piece shown above (Yoshu Chikanobu) was born in 1838 and died in 1912. Of course, my response is based primarily on the theme of the tsuba as opposed to a close inspection of the condition of the tsuba itself... There are more knowledgeable people on the forum who are better suited to that sort of thing than me. Perhaps one of them could give us an indication about the style/school or add some further remarks about the likely age of the tsuba as I cannot rule out the possibility that this is a late Edo Period piece depicting cherry blossom viewing somewhere else in Japan... (Ueno or Kyoto?) Hope this helps...

Excited to share my first ever kozuka in my collection as up until now I've only ever collected tsuba or fuchigashira... Also my first Yanagawa piece. This kozuka features a tanuki staring at the moon and whilst it is not papered, it appears to be signed Yanagawa Naomitsu (kao). Picture and mei comparison image for reference below. Any experts on Yanagawa school? Thoughts?

The eyes on the figure on the right are golden, the figure on the left however is squinting so the eyes aren't visible. The golden eyes on Hamano pieces are not necessarily always present or conclusive in and of themselves, however they do appear in a lot of Hamano works that depict human figures. If you compare the fuchigashira to the Tsuba example, there are also some clear qualitative differences. The Tsuba has more naturalistic, less rigid linework in my view and I've already mentioned how Hamano school seem to lean more toward Shibuichi as a base metal which is inconsistent with your fuchigashira and leaves me doubtful that it is a Hamano school piece. More likely a later Edo gimei piece by an artisan trying to cash in on the reputation of the Hamano name. This was of course common in the Edo Period.

Apologies, that was not my intention I assure you. I was really just trying to provide another example for qualitative comparison. Basically, it was a round-about way of saying what you yourself have just said, the qualities of the work do not match Hamano school. Referring to the kashira Yves has just shared with us, I would point again to the eyes in the design which don't match those golden eyes typical of Hamano school. Shibuichi also seems to have been more preferred by Hamano artists as a base metal - at least, I think, based on what I have seen. One thing the kashira does do which is more typical of Hamano designs is the scroll curves over the edge of the kashira. Hamano kashira designs often curve over the edge like this.

Thank you very much, we'll see how it looks in person once it arrives in the coming week or 2! It wasn't cheap but I think it will be worth it. Some design points to note include the golden eyes of our samurai on the kashira and the way the bow curves over the side which are both indicative of Hamano style designs. The mei also seems fairly close to Mauro's example despite it being from a different Hamano artist... Here is another work example from the same artist and a thread with some other examples of Hamano Noriyuki's mei...

I had considered this possibility and it was in the shortlist of themes I came up with, with the assistance of @Iekatsu, but the rider on the fuchi seems to be wearing foreign armour, likely Chinese or Korean based on other works floating around out there. This has given me some doubts... I was considering the possibility that it is Takezaki Suenaga from the defense of Hakata Bay during the Mongol invasion, however Kajiwara Genta Kagesue from the Genpei War also came to mind per your suggestion as he was portrayed in a similar fashion to the Fuchi in Ukiyoe works and the Uji river theme was very popular... In the battle at Hakata Bay one of the generals on the Mongol side was from Goryeo which might explain our (foreign?) rider's armour on the fuchi if we were to go with the Suenaga theory... Ukiyoe paintings of both examples below, starting with Takezaki Suenaga first followed by Kajiwara Kagesue:

On this topic, it just so happens that I have a fuchigashira coming from Japan signed Hamano Noriyuki... The work definitely has Hamano style features but it could still be gimei. Tell me what you think! If anyone has any ideas about the theme let me know. Spent some time brainstorming about this one but couldn't definitively work it out. Whilst there appears to be a famous samurai on the kashira, the rider on the fuchi appears to be wearing foreign armour (?)

Very nice statue of Acala/Mahakala Dharmapala. Not sure I'm ready to branch out from Tosogu yet but I think this is a great acquisition!

It appears to be mapping the Southern advances of the imperial army from the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo toward Shanghai going from top to bottom... This would presumably place the date somewhere between the capture of Shanghai in November 1937 and the Japanese surrender in August 1945. This was most likely produced around the peak of Japan's military dominance circa November 1937 - December 1941. Very interesting item you have found.

This is a cool and unique style of craftmanship I haven't really seen before! Very nice tsuba and fuchigahira, Geraint and Okan!

I did and it also seems plausible, however from what little I know Hikone works are often half-open works as opposed to fully solid works right? The example you linked has some open sections whilst the tsuba in question is a fully closed design. There are of course some exceptions to this rule that make Hikone a possibility but I would say probably about 90% of all the Hikone tsuba I've seen have a partial open design. P.S. If it is Hikone, it is probably Goshu Hikone

I would probably dismiss Hamano as a possibility. Hamano work often tends to curve over the rim/edge and Hamano figures are known to generally have distinctive, mostly gold eyes which does not seem to match the Guan Yu in your tsuba. Whilst iron is not out of the question, Shibuichi also seems to have been more popular for the Hamano school as a base metal. Tetsugendo or Shoami seem a lot more likely.

Tetsugendo definitely seems possible also. The background of the tsuba almost gives me Choshu or Bushu Ito vibes but I don't think the foreground style matches those.

I've taken a couple weeks off the forum so I'm super late to this one... I'm yet to delve into menuki in my own collection (they sort of scare me risk wise, unless they have a signed attribution like this one!) but this one is beautiful and a great pickup!!!! Yanagawa school as has already been said! I just picked up a kozuka signed Yanagawa Naomitsu which I believe is authentic and I hope to share with the forum once it arrives from Japan! Makes me wish I had found this menuki as well! Great find!

Agree that the image is almost certainly Guan Gong. This was a pretty prevalent design in the culture of the later Edo Period and there are many other Tosogu from many different schools depicting Guan Yu... I myself have a Tsuba as well as a Fuchi depicting Guan Yu. The design is typically identifiable by the long beard, crescent blade and reddish face. The deign of Guan Yu sitting at a table as in the case of this piece is also common. As for the school it is difficult for me to say and there are plenty of others better equipped to make a judgement. I would guess maybe Shoami? The combination of metals, depicted scene and style are not dissimilar from one of my own Tsuba... Link to a thread about that one below: That said there are some marked differences in style as well, so take my attribution with a grain of salt!

Looks authentic, I think probably late Edo circa 1850. Not great quality but having an entire matching set is nice.

This is something I was wondering about but didn't have the confidence in my knowledge to raise in the thread... Every Higo school spider tsuba I have ever seen has had an iron base and usually gold adornment. For example: https://varshavskyco...collection/tsu-0206/ I've seen several of these of varying quality, but never one with a different base or a wood grain effect.