Natichu

First and foremost, thank you very much for such an insightful post. I found it very helpful. I did have one question about the section on jigane, in particular shintetsu. Is this tolerance of shintetsu an overarching thing - that is, applicable to all blades generally - or is it more particular to blades from schools like Hizen or Rai, in which I understand it may be a bit of a kantei point? (If I'm incorrect on that issue my apologies, I'm a rather rank beginner at all of this.)

But you just said the study of nihonto was like baking and physics, and now it's different? Talk about moving goal posts. At any rate, I agree it's highly complex and technical, and enough to make a beginner like me question at many points whether it is worth pursuing. I don't think anyone expects otherwise, or disagrees with your proposition that sword in hand is best. It seems you're suggesting the forum and those that recommend books are saying that you can learn it all without ever touching a sword. That is a patent strawman, and I don't think anyone here has ever put forward that argument. Rather, it's that books have their place both as a supplement to that (else the NBTHK surely wouldn't have any for reference) and as a way for us beginners to build vocab and understand exactly how much our knowledge is lacking. Few things have made clearer to me that I need more swords in hand to learn the basics than the small number of books I have. But they've taught me small pieces about the basics such that I have a better sense to guide my learning as I move forward and allow me to better articulate questions, and that has real value. It certainly won't bring me anywhere near your level of knowledge and experience (and I don't think anyone disagrees you are knowledgeable and would be a real asset to this forum if you would put your knowledge out there for members to read) but it is something and is what is available to me in terms of time and financial commitment. At any rate, that's almost assuredly enough from me. OP - as a fellow beginner I have found both the Connoisseurs Guide and Facts And Fundamentals to be good starting points, along with the assorted online resources around (which thankfully are free).

While I hesitate to weigh in, those fields you have mentioned are trades, not hobbies and passions. Many home bakers and cooks have learned plenty, and done well, learning from books and without teachers. Many in any number of other fields pursued as a hobby do the same. Beginners here are generally not setting out to be polishers or museum curators, that is true sword professionals. They are those that have a passion and wish to learn more as part of a hobby. Certainly, getting blades in hand with a teacher present is the best way to learn. But that doesn't mean other avenues don't have value for those looking to pursue knowledge, and the pleasure of learning. Just because I can't drop everything to go do an advanced degree at MIT doesn't mean I shouldn't enjoy reading Six Easy Pieces. Talk about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good! At any rate, I don't anticipate I or anyone else will change your mind or persuade you to moderate your approach when dealing with newbs, neophytes, or those just looking to learn a bit. But one can't help but feel your approach does more to hinder the passion we all share rather than further it.

I can definitely see the appeal in having a papered zaimei blade, and that would be my preference. That said, with a restricted budget and strong preference as to size, for the moment I think mumei may be where I end up. If I can land a signed so much the better, but I'm more likely to compromise there than on length. Will very much keep in mind though, and let you know where I land!

Number 3 takes the cake for me as I'm quite fascinated with naginata naoshi, with my least favourite being 1. Please forgive my ignorance, but I had thought 1 would qualify as a hira-zukuri. What sugata is that? After 3, I'd say two would be my runner up. Seems to have some presence to the sugata to my eye though I can't say why (I may interpret the image as showing it having a high shinogi, but that I anticipate that is me mis-seeing things).

That makes sense, definitely an interesting looking blade, and if I understand your explanation correctly that very much explains why the activities in the hamon look almost more hada continued than what one usually sees. If it ever comes back on the market I may well jump, but think that's unlikely any time soon given it's just been purchased by someone else. That said, if it ever happens I'll certainly let you know.

One never knows, it may come back around and find me. Otherwise, lots of things to learn in the meantime it seems! If you have any study resource recommendations on either Dotanuki or Bungo Takada, they'd be most welcome.

Fantastic information, thank you very much! Unfortunately I missed out on a Dotanuki a little while back from Touken Komachi as I was following the English page rather than the Japanese. Would have been a lovely find and checked pretty well all of my boxes: https://www.toukenko...i&katanaA010624.html Will keep digging into the Bungo side of things and keep your advice in mind.

Thanks for the input! Learning to read between the lines of the Aoi descriptions seems to be a bit of an art. I took the iai reference to mean new, cheap, and sturdy koshirae (which I don't mind), but didn't apply it to the blade as well. In terms of the attribution by the NBTHK, I'm still very much learning on that front. While I understood Bungo Takada (and possibly less so Taira Takada and Fujiwara Takada) to be a bit of a kantei bucket of last resort, my thought was the attribution to a specific smith made that to be less likely. I take it I'm incorrect in that understanding though? Any insight there would be very much appreciated given my interest in pursing something from either the Takada or Dotanuki schools (and it seems like the former is going to be easier to get my hands on than the latter).

3 first, 1 last, but can't say I'd turn my nose up at any to say the least!

Hi John, I've definitely had some back and forth as to compromising on size, and might be willing to go as short as 2.40 (as the example above is), but don't think I'd go shorter. I definitely appreciate this both limits my options and means I'll be sacrificing quality but think that's the balance I'll be happiest with. I recall reading some posts from @Jussi EkholmEkholm on that front (hopefully he'll excuse the tag!) where he talked about his balancing of those factors, and putting appropriate size and shape at the forefront of things - or that's my recollection of them at any rate. Very much in line with what I'm going for, and I think he undoubtedly put it better than I can. That said I'll definitely keep it in mind and try not to close my mind off to the possibility, as you never know where the options will lead. Thanks for the input and insight!

A very nice option for sure, much appreciated! Unfortunately a bit out of reach, but a lovely piece.

No, as I mentioned above to Dan I don't intend to use an antique for training. The desire to own an antique of similar length to what I use in training is more philosophical in nature (a feel akin to having "my" sword and a connection to it, appreciating that I'm just a caretaker for a single generation of the swords much longer lifespan) rather than a practical limitation.

I find the best problems, complications, and troubles tend to be those you aren't looking for. So I figure may as well set myself up for success! All of which will be closely followed by "this is the last one, I swear!"

Thanks for the suggestions! Will start digging into options on those fronts as well.

Thank you very much for the insight Dan. I don't intend to use the blade for training, but rather for appreciation - while I like the idea of having koshirae at some point, I'm also quite happy to have a blade solely in shirasaya so funds go to the blade itself.

Hello all, I apologize in advance for a bit of longer post, but was hoping to get some input on a potential first purchase. Relatively new member here mulling through the inevitable trials and tribulations of a first purchase. Have missed on a few pieces of interest, but trying not to rush things or to feel pressured to move. Budget is round about $5000 USD for a daito. I'm not looking to start an extensive collection, likely just a single daito, a wakizashi, and maybe a wakizashi (with the aim of potentially combining items 2 and 3 by focusing on naginata-naoshi wakizashi). For the daito, one of my primary concerns is length. As a martial artist, I train with iaito between 2.50 and 2.55 shaku in length, and am hoping to land on something near that neighbourhood. I appreciate this is relatively long, and so I'll likely need to have some flexibility there if I'm not able to go up in budget or willing to accept pieces of lower quality. My preference would be for a koto blade, or at latest Keicho shinto. I have a particular interest in some of Yamato offshoots such as the Uda school (mainline Yamato seems out of reach) as well as some of the southern wakimono school - particularly the Dotanuki and Takada schools. The draw with the latter option is in part the reputation the schools seem to have had for having a focus on producing good weapons first, with aesthetic considerations being a lesser consideration. While papered and zaimei would obviously be the best option, I have no problem with mumei and papered as that seems likely to give me the best bang for buck in terms of quality. I'm somewhat wary of buying online from Japan, but have been following a number of site closely, including Aoi and Touken Komachi. Which brings us to an option that has come up recently: https://sword-auctio...genbthk-hozon-token/ Upsides - good width and thickness, very attractive shape, papered to a specific smith rather than the more generic Taira Takada/Bungo Takada/Fujiwara Takada (which I understand can function as more of a shinsa kantei bucket of nondescript blades, along with Uda and Echizen Seki). Aoi indicates this is the Muromachi generation Munekaga, rather than the later Shoho era smith (any thoughts there are welcome, however, as it's unclear from the Hozon origami which is meant). The shape and osuriage nature of the blade seem to me to make the earlier smith the one intended, but I'm very new to all of this. Downsides to my mind are it's short for my desires (2.40), and there are two areas noted as having some rust (in emails, described as "usu sabi") - the mune side as mentioned in the listing and then in the hamon itself (ura side, a little ways above the hamachi). Pictures sent from Aoi attached. My main questions to the group are whether this seems a reasonable purchase for a beginner, and whether the rust (which I assume is stable, but again feedback welcome) would be a deal breaker for most of you if you were looking in this price range. Any feedback on whether going online through Aoi should be something I avoid at this point in my collection career as well would be much appreciated. Again, my apologies for the long post, but any input welcome! Thank you all for the time if you've made it this far.

Doesn't the shinsa report note it specifically to be naginata naoshi? Under construction, it is listed as "(その他)薙刀直し".

Please do let us know how the shinsa goes! Would be quite interested to hear the results.

I have to say I love both the Shikkake and this koshirae. Not far off of what I'd eventually like to put together for myself if I'm able. All told seems like an excellent start to a collection!

As a beginner I have come across this advice too, but it seems like it's likely a cost/use of resources thing. From the NMB FAQ: "Having koshirae (mounts) made for a sword is also a common desire of new collectors. While this will do no damage to the sword if done by a professional, it can put a serious dent in your wallet. When the time comes to sell (and it will, unless you plan to be buried with your sword) you will be lucky to recoup half of what you invest in koshirae. Other collectors want original "Samurai" koshirae, not something you put together. Rather than jumping in with polish and/or koshirae, you would be smart to take your time to study and learn. With experience you will be able to make informed decisions and spend your money more wisely. Also, your tastes will change. A few years from now you'll be glad you don't have way too much invested in something you want to sell. "

While I don't have much to add as a beginner myself, I will say that the recommendation above to work with Mike Yamasaki is an excellent one. He's been working with me on acquiring a first piece, and I cannot speak highly enough of him or my experiences with him. For someone looking to start with a juyo-grade piece, I think that would be a stellar place to start. -Nathaniel

Hi all, Nathaniel in Canada. Long time interest in Japanese history, culture, and in particular martial arts. Just getting started in terms of more serious study of nihonto specifically, though I have always had a fascination with them. After watching the assorted sites for the last few years have finally made a first purchase I'll be making a post about once I have it in hand. Looking forward to learning more and very excited at the depth of knowledge many of the members here have shown throughout the many threads I've read!