cabowen

I think there is no doubt that on average they are good and can stand with the average swords of any period. I would also say that there will be some that reach the Juyo level in the future because some are indeed very good. I have kept the gunto koshirae for only one that I have owned. But that was because it is unique in that the blade is over 31" long.... Beauty first, then the craftsmanship and technology, then the culture/religion/history. I will concede that one valued aspect of gendaito that I have mentioned in the past, and you have mentioned as well, is the closeness of the history. One can indeed put a face to the maker, learn about his life and character is some cases, and usually see multiple examples of his work. If one is fortunate enough to actually meet the maker of a blade in his collection, it certainly makes you look at that blade in a different light and enriches one's collecting experience. That said, I would not own a blade simply because I met a smith and thought highly of him as a person. Likewise, I have met some smiths that made excellent swords but their personality was off-putting and I wouldn't want one of their swords if it was given to me....

This late in the war Masakiyo had a few students working with him. It may be daisaku/daimei. I have seen many of his and his student's blades. They are usually quite good - you have a good eye to recognize quality in a rather unknown smith.

I don't think there is any doubt that it is a koto sword. It looks, at least as far as the pictures can take one, to be a good one. The blade should be well cared for and put through a shinsa as it may well be something quite valuable. There will be a US shinsa next year.

At a glance, I believe the saya gaki gives an owner's name and address, the length of the blade, an attribution to Soshu Yukimitsu, and a Showa date for the saya gaki with the name of the person attributing the blade (Honami Koson). I am sure someone else will fill in the blanks. The habaki is very nice and was expensive. The jihada looks very good as well...Would be interesting to see what a modern shinsa would conclude...

There was an interesting discussion I heard today on public radio wherein how and why people value things. An interesting statement made was that people value items based on the item's history/past. For example, baby shoes worn by one's baby, identical to another pair, are valued much more than the identical pair due to the fact that there is a history that creates a value to the parent. Simple sentimental value. It was discussed how it wasn't the item, per se, that contained the value, but the history associated with it. From this perspective, it could explain the artifact approach to collecting- people actually value the history associated with the sword, perhaps sometimes in addition to whatever artistic value it may or may not contain. This would apply not only to the "keep the gunto koshirae" perspective but also to a great extent the favor shown to older blades or blades from the age of the samurai. To someone without this attachment to the historical connotation who placed value more on inherent quality, period and other historical associations would lose importance....

I would second Reinhard's translation..... I like these organic tsuba a lot....

maker is Yoshichika and made in winter of 1787....

One individual (professional smith) forged the blade and another (his employer) did the quenching to create the hamon (white colored hardened edge). This particular person seems to have enjoyed this and did in on occasion. There are other examples of this in sword history but it is indeed rare. 18th century....Please take good care of this sword as it deserves proper preservation.

Agreed. Read that when it came out....

Living in Japan I had an old car, sometimes wore old clothes, and lived in an old house. My Japanese friends always gave me a hard time- boro boro car, boro boro house, etc....I would always say no, not boro boro (run down, old, junky), wabi sabi! That always got a big laugh.... There are many fallacies when it comes to Japan and its culture....There wasn't much interest in things old until recently, just like most think the Japanese are nature loving and so tuned in to the environment...yeah, they like to do things like bulldoze an entire mountain and forest and then rebuild a concrete imitation on top of it, calling it Nature Land..... I would recommend reading van Wolferen's "Enigma of Japanese Power" for a fairly spot on analysis of many of these fallacies.

As study of NihonTo as an art form. Would you tell me that it is very common in Japan ? Please discern from the practice of martial arts with ancient swords. Just "Art". Well, they are called bijutsu-token (art sword) and are displayed primarily in art museums.... That is a modern phenomenon from what I understand...

Talk me about wabi-sabi and the feeling old things gives to japaneses... Wabi-sabi is often lost on mainstream Japanese. It has been replaced with "boro-boro".....

To this I can easly reply : it is spawned thru hard study and the free minds we have after the French revolution. Not differently from study of artworks af *any* culture. In Japan it is still fighting with the traditions and religion. Same in Korea and China. P.S. In this my perceiving might be a little uncommon and biased, as in Italy we literally walk on archeological sites almost anywere, most of them *also* of artistical importance, a thing that hardly occur anywhere else in the world. Not so sure religion, at least in a Western sense, plays any significant role in this in Japan...While there are museums dedicated to nearly everything in Japan, from cats to candles, museums like the Field Museum in Chicago or other such museums dedicated to cultural/natural history seem to be scarce. The only one that comes to mind of any importance is the Edo Museum which is really fascinating as it documents the history of Tokyo. It did not even open however until maybe 10-15 years ago. Most Japanese do not like old things, especially those that belonged to people. They prefer to bulldoze perfectly good houses rather than live somewhere someone else once lived. Until the recent economy reality forced them to consider 2nd hand goods, they wouldn't think of buying used. For a society so obsessed with eating every part of everything, I thought it very contradictory that they would routinely throw away 2 year old tvs (in perfect working order) and all manner of other perfectly good and usable household appliances, etc. and buy new...A collision perhaps of the old and new.... In any case, my point is that there is more importance placed in general on old things in the West than in Japan...more of a concern about preserving history.

It is always helpful to at least post the images right side up to make it easier for those with an inclination to help to reply....

Hardly. You live in Japan, don't you ? Ask around who invented Tanko and reply to him how many chances there are they were invented by Koreans. If you can avoid the first sake bottle flying to you, you'll realize archeology is not a western science. BTW, archeology includes also art objects. You better leave it out of the contest. I know that archeology is practiced in modern Japan but really do not know when it started to be pursued on a scientific basis as it has in the west for quite a long time. I am simply wondering if the archeological mindset is spawned by tradition or something else among western collectors...

No, I would sell it to someone who collected cars on the grounds that it is mass produced and not a work of art. I don't think there is any disputing that both art and artifacts have monetary value in the marketplace. My question focused on the distinction between the two and whether or not people looked at nihon-to as art or artifact. Seems many view them as artifact, some as both, and fewer still as simply art. I would wager that if this was asked in Japan, we would probably get the opposite result....That to me is quite interesting. Can archeology be considered a Western science?

Yoshiharu is a correct reading.....

I wouldn't call the inability of readers here to understand Reinhard's comments the result of their own ignorance but rather the short, snarky, sarcastic, superior and semi-cryptic nature of many of them. Usually people have the courtesy and good manners to simply stay out of a discussion if they have nothing of substance to add, or, if it is beneath their intellectual level. It takes as much time and effort to write something helpful as it does something derisive. Since most people I have encountered here seem generally interested in learning, I see no reason for the hit and run posts that add nothing positive to the discussion. How much more useful to all it would be if he would use his advanced knowledge and Naijin expertise to educate instead of agitate.

yes, showa...

Not legally and with severe consequences if caught....

True enough. That about covers most of those in the US. Tanobe san is a professional and surely there are few at his level of knowledge. That doesn't mean that there are not people who have spent their lives attending kantei 3 or 4 times a month for 40 or more years who are more than capable of correct judgements in most cases....I know personally several such people. Many togi-shi are also at this level. You are fortunate to have that opportunity. Surely you have met people there then that have the experience of which I speak....

Grounded in fact or not, and as interesting a discussion that it would engender, I don't think it is relevant to this discussion and pursuit of it will certainly end, well, you know how it will end.....

I was implying by my analogy of a Monet in a Walmart frame that the frame had no artistic value, was mass produced, and basically made not as some kind of heirloom, but as a cheap frame for Auntie's paint by numbers masterpiece. The date of manufacture is not the point-the craftsmanship and artistic value are..... Art is not valued by age, but artifacts are to a large degree (mostly because it is age that takes the common and through the entropy of time decreases the quantity until it changes from commonplace to uncommon). The key to my point is not whether or not the mass produced gunto koshirae might have value at some point in the future as artifacts, but as art. Surely in the year 101010, if there are still humans on the planet and there happens to be a few gunto koshirae remaining, they undoubtedly will have some kind of value simply because of their rarity (something I am perhaps contributing to by not valuing them in the present). This value will have more to do with rarity than intrinsic artistic value. I know someone will pipe up and mention Korean tea bowls, now highly valued as art, originally every day ware in Korea....Well, they were at least hand made. I doubt the same will ever happen with something as manufactured as a gunto koshirae..... Collecting blades and koshirae independently has a long history in the culture of Japan. Witness all the unmounted kodogu. I have seen swords with no mekugi ana as well that were never meant for use. The fact that blades and kodogu can be given kantei-sho independently supports the view that they are in fact not only separable but independent art work. Furthermore, when they are exhibited in any museum, the blades and kodogu are displayed separately and independently.... If you collect blades, kodogu, and swords as art, then gunto koshirae have no relevance. If you view these items as artifacts and wish to preserve them in situ, as it were, then I can understand the motivation to keep them together. Clearly it all depends on your perspective, art or artifact.....

I am afraid the markings will not tell you anything about the blade, even if they were legible. The hamon and the rest of the blade will indeed give you the puzzle pieces you need.....A quick glance at the hamon might indicate you start looking into the Mino tradition. Without better photos, I couldn't say koto or shinto with any certainty.....

"Years of experience" of what? Of handling second and third grade swords? I surmise you have never spent any time in Japan attending monthly kantei meetings were one can study blades routinely by the top smiths from all periods....