FrenchBreadPrime

Also adding this just as a reminder, but when corrected and pressed on the matter, Dave's only answer is avoiding it altogether with the millenia old "I don't have time for this" excuse despite having time to slander well respected people like Nishioka, then making an insultingly unrelated explanation about a long dead historical figure that looks like it was written by chatgpt on a bad day, moving the goalpost with semantics about urushi terms, then bringing up his online nemesis, saying that he shouldn't boast about his skills while he himself boasts about them one line further. Again, were this dispute about Nihonto, this matter would already be dealt with.

There's not a lot of people interested enough in armors, not as much as people interested in Nihonto. This means that if someone with a semblance of authority starts poisoning the well, it destroys it for everyone. From what I've learned by going really in depth and meeting with artisans and reading books, visiting castles and museum, I can agree with Andy that Dave is basically talking out of his ass, willingly or not. If Dave was presenting himself as a koshirae maker spewing nonsense and trying to make it pass as truth on this forum, he'd likely be kicked out, and everyone would call him out. I'm mostly interested in armor stuff and I don't want to see people spinning lies about the topic, sharing disinformation was never the point of this forum I wager but here we are. It's not about Dave vs Andy, any goddamn Katchushi I managed to meet, or whose work I've seen has had interesting information to share that directly contradicts the claims that Dave made about armor. So either most Katchushi in Japan, as well as museum backed books are totally wrong about their field but for some reason Dave, unable to use proper Japanese, isn't for some reason, or maybe he's just lying. If you just lock this thread it's going to start over again in a month anyways. Just to say, if it was the same thing about swords, that matter would be dealt with more swiftly. Except one side is obviously spewing nonsense, anybody who has read even a few books on the topic, or that even know toddler level of Japanese can notice that maybe Dave doesn't really know what he's speaking about?

I usually mostly lurk but damn. You certainly had the time for something as trivial as slandering people like Nishioka but for some reason don't have time to explain baby's first urushi ? I too have had the occasion to meet with mr Nishioka earlier this year and most of what that Henry dude said is right. It's also incredibly disrespectful to him to say that he's unable to get a proper urushi finish, and that no katchu-shi is able to, are you in a better position than Japanese museums to judge that ? You're making a mistake at toddler-level Japanese with using a furo instead of a muro, a furo is a goddamn bath for christ's sake, and we're supposed to believe that you're fit to judge people that are spending their lives doing this job ? That's N5 level Japanese, any damn beginner will make the difference. Useless information, unless you're genuinely expecting people in here to have a room temperature IQ and being unable to differentiate an artist name and a long dead historical figure. I can't even fathom why you thought it'd be pertinent to put that information here, the only thing it serves is being patronizing and it's pretty disrespectful to the people here. Also cool backpedaling here about the Sabi nuri, while you clearly said "sabi-urushi nuri" at first. Calling bluff on that one. If I'm not mistaken you've met the man just once, surely this is not enough time to judge someone's work. My brother in Christ, you just boasted about your skills in the same bloody post. The burden of proof is on you for all the wild stuff you're claiming. Your posts have only been dumb claims with nothing to back them, and you dare ask other to show their stuff. Andy isn't even in the goddamn thread but instead of refuting the points made you're asking someone that's not here to post his work. That's how rent-free he lives in your head. Instead of relying on ad-hominem the moment your claims get challenged, next time, make a proper answer like a grown man would. I used to look up to you, then started getting suspicions when interacting with you, but now it's pretty evident that you're just LARPing as a katchushi. All that stance about being humble goes out the window the moment you get challenged. It's unfitting of what you're pretending to be. Agreed. I've had the chance to meet him, as well as a few other Shokunin and everything that's been told has been positive, reinforcing the idea that Dave's been spouting bullshit since the beginning.

Found the time to color and shade everything. I feel like I butchered some parts but it was fun nonetheless. Despite working in absurd resolution it's hard to try and put details in the odoshi. I rarely draw characters wearing yoroi due to a lack of free time but when I do I always have fun.

Yeah, you are right, there is also a lack of well detailed armors in media and art in general, or rather people tend to go with more fantasy-esque looks, which has always iffed me. I like fantasy stuff but usually real armors manage to look better than fantasy ones. Same goes for all kind of armors, too.

Alrighty then, here's a work in progress, as of now it's only lineart as I am kind of hell bent on finishing each steps in one sitting when drawing, so I need to find time to do the coloring and shading but I have not been able to this week due to working overtime at my job. I have been raised with Dragon Ball so my style is quite Manga but I go with realistic shadings, and shading is a part where I really shine, so the final look will be quite different. I like to draw female warriors so I went with an Onna Bugeisha here. The armor itself would likely be a frankenstein set of armor so to say as it's not inspired by a single set but rather by different individual pieces, I don't think it would be too shocking to see a Saika Momonari Kabuto matched with a Go-mai Dou but I can't say that I've seen one before so I took liberties. I think there are things I could have done better like the haidate, or even the dou overall shape but we learn through failing. The most tedious part to draw is usually Odoshi-ge, so I'd like to get better at it too. I will erase the Kusari when I'll start the shading and draw them properly without using lines. As for the colors, I will go for red urushi, I'm unsure at what shading technique I'll need to use to get the feel of it, the last time I did it was too metallic/shiny but I also knew less. Unsure about the Odoshi colors. I might draw waki-date too, but again, unsure yet. Momonari Go-Mai Do are my favorite sets overall. There's a lot of things I could have done better but I improve every time.

This is a great thread, it's really cool seeing you guys do all this! Isn't there something about every man should craft a Kabuto at some point in their life ? I really like the holster too, it's awesome work, I really like Tanegashima Tanzutsu in general though. All this makes me want to try my hand at it, I've only been doing digital art with armors.

You're right haha! I shouldn't have mentioned Yukinoshita Do for that reason, but I really love those Do, though I have seen combinations with these Kabuto and Gomai do, some of which looked impressive, but most of which were uchidashi, hindering the utility of the armor. Akoda nari and Momonari are some of my favorite Kabuto for their utility and look, and I reaaaally like Yukinoshita do (for the same reason, they look great and are incredibly good at what they do)! I also really appreciate a lot of Kawari kabuto, but that would be more of a case-by-case scenario. Now I wouldn't spit on a set exactly like the one I mentioned but with the usual Yukinoshita Do and Suji bachi kabuto combo either, I'm just more of a sucker for other kinds of Kabuto. If we're talking Suji Bachi, I tend to prefer those with less plates (8 or so), as to me they look a little "rougher" than those with more plates. I think I saw one like that as a Gusoku with a Yukinoshita Do a few months ago.

I am in no way an expert and my opinion tends to differ from the general consensus. Objectively, the most desirable would be something like an O-Yoroi, something that's artistically and historically significant. Now I don't think you'd be able to get your hands on a genuine one without giving away your firstborn. Something more realistic to get your hands on would be a Saotome 62 plate koboshi kabuto. There's also a lot of incredibly beautiful sets from Mid to Late Edo jidai, but a lot of armors from that time sacrifice utility for looks. Kabuto by themselves are usually very sought after, and Saotome is an incredible school when it comes to Kabuto, they're well known and for good reason. Koboshi Kabuto require an incredible amount of precise work to be made (as is the case for all Kabuto, but a 62 plate koboshi Kabuto would take a tremendous amount of time to make due to the amount of rivets needed), they're beautifful and subtle pieces. Personally, I really, really love utility, I don't expect having to fight a burglar while wearing Samurai Armor in a home defense scenario (though one can dream), and it would be overkill anyways but there's some historical weight to the fact that something was absolutely unpenetrable. I also enjoy looks, so my "dream armor" would be something like a Tameshi Go-Mai Do(or yukinoshita do) Gusoku, ideally red lacquered and with an Akoda nari or Momo nari Kabuto with wakidate or animalistic features. With all the possible adds like wakibiki, etc Now I know I'm more likely to get hit by lightning thrice and win the lottery twice all in the same week than I am to ever stumble upon that kind of armor, but to me, that'd be the holy grail.

I really love the Maedate, the huge ears and horns always do it for me. Also, always good to see armors with Hanakami-bukuro, I feel like we don't see those that often despite the likely added utility. Even today, being able to pack the most things with you is so useful. Great set!

Is there actually a risk of ruining an armor while restoring it ? From what I've seen the only removal of material that can happen is the removal of lacquer and silk that will flake off/disintegrate over time anyways, and perhaps the removal of metal if a specific part was withering away under rust. Or am I mistaken ? On Nihonto there's a lot of care about the risk of removing too much metal due to the way polishing works, and a bad polish can ruin the entire blade, but with the way armor is segmented can an armor be entirely ruined anyways ? Even with fake fiberglass parts and filling, can't those be removed and replaced ? I might be wrong, but it seems that even in the worst case scenarios, an armor could be restored to its original appearance, with some cases requiring more time than others.

Ah, thanks for the information ! I did not know that fabric made it better to prevent urushi chipping. I guess a moriage nio dou would still sacrifice utility then, at least there are other ways to be stylish on a battlefield !

Agreed about social media, not fond of these but I feel like it's becoming a necessity for artisans and artists to remind people that they're still there. Regarding hotoke dou, I remember reading that they could also be done by applying a layer of fabric or leather to the bare dou and applying lacquer over it, or is this always the case for hotoke dou ? Also, it's impressive how much weight gets added with everything that's applied, can't imagine how heavy a nio dou with moriage would get haha

Haven't been here since long although I've lurked for some time. Good points are made here. Thank you for providing this place, Brian.

Hello ! I do not use Facebook much but it's a really good thing to have more katchushi presence on social medias, I will be following the page. I'm curious if there are any other pages apart from this one and Kouji Kadoya's on Instagram. Would it be fair to say that Nio Dou is an evolution of Hotoke Dou which is an evolution of Okegawa ? Or would it be too simplistic to say so ? Also, how much weight is added when a Nio Dou is made using moriage ?