Bridges

@Bruce Pennington. @Michael T seller got back within minutes of my request, here are MUCH clearer pics. Bruce, is that dimples on the backstrap or poor casting marks?!? Look where the mon typically is. Also, the type Michael posted has a dimple where the hilt meets the grip. Similar dimple on this type.

Found this on fleebay.

I’m struggling here Michael, I sat down and did a side by side of the original and the eBay one. They are very similar. Bruce is right, if this is a fake, they took their time with it. I’m on the fence, seller wants 225 to start the bid and he accepts returns. I’ve asked for better pics in the light. Bruce pointed out the hilt looks like it may be steel. I’ll attach the pics of what I think he’s referring to. (Correct me if I’m wrong Bruce) I’m not sure if the light is hitting it the wrong way and casting an illusion or if it’s steel. The numbered font on the saya is nearly identical. Bo-hi starts and stops in similiar area. I’ve noticed with fakes sometimes the bohi starts very far away from the hilt. The thought of this being original is enticing. I’m wondering if I should buy it and return it if the natural pics come back better….I appreciate the input. Seems like the common consensus is China isn’t churning out true, parade type 19s (not gunto) due to low cost but I have seen, albeit very few, fakes hit eBay. Very, very few but they are present. Everyone is making great points. If the seller gets back with better pics I’ll keep y’all posted.

Thanks Kiipu, I’m going to save those pics for reference. They almost remind me of Manchuria types!

Hey John, what gave it away for you? For me, it’s the flat head screw. The cherry blossom isn’t terrible but the screw is a red flag I can’t ignore.

Hey Jean, I wasn’t sure if the eBay link put it in this section or not? I was on the fence about this, if @Brian can move it to the appropriate section thatd be great.

Hey all, I’m interested in bidding on this type 19 that has a habaki and what appears to be a machined made blade, rare stuff to say the least. HOWEVER, this seller is piddling multiple fake types. He has fake type 95, 98, fake alleged saber and so on. This is an alleged type 19 but look at where the nut is supposed to be cold peened, ITS A FLAT HEAD SCREW! I’m dying internally because this is what I search eBay every day for. Can y’all give guidance on the Tokyo proof marks? I’m not too worried about the scabbard not being chromed due to other guntos having a similar scabbard but, it would make it easier to throw a non-chromed scabbard on this piece. All this to say, the seller popped up with all these fake swords. All I need to know is, is this one fake too? Does anyone know this seller? https://www.ebay.com/itm/125692973813?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9iYfDj0YS4y&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5b5Igx0HQ7e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Thanks Jean, this is why I ask the pros! I’ll remember that going forward Ken

Ben, you’re exactly right. I just looked over my collection and none of them have the stepped/beveled throat like that, intriguing.

Thanks for the concurrence Kiipu, I pulled my info from Dawson’s swords of imperial Japan!

Thanks for letting me know Gilles, I know nothing about jitte so I appreciate it

Hey guys, this Jitte has caught my attention. The roughness of the shark skin and mon just seems to draw me in. I have no experience with these, what is the going rate? https://www.ebay.com/itm/354218071258?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ksslb2eqqqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5b5Igx0HQ7e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Thanks Scott!

Good point John. I’m just having issues with the grip and cherry blossom.

That’s a beautiful sword panet, but it by no means pokes holes in anything I said. You did not address the samegawa and your example clearly has Buffalo horn. Your example has very nice, and clear engraving on the hilt, the fake does not and actually lacks engraving on some parts entirely. Pics below. The braid on yours is nice and thin, the braid on the fake is thick. Your cherry blossom is nice and crisp, the fake is crude and ugly. Notice how your leaves connect tightly to each other. The fakes leaves have space actually between each other. Lastly, if I play devil’s advocate and say it is authentic, why does the wear on the handle not match the wear on the blade/scabbard?!? None of this adds up.

Here she is Bruce, I’ll do some further digging on the proof mark and will update if I discover anything of note!

Hey all! I’m excited to say I purchased this Junsa, or, patrolmen(police) sword in what appears to be remarkable condition. I don’t understand the proof mark above the nickel habaki and I cannot find it in Dawsons guide. I purchased this sword for $380 USD and I want to know, how did I do? Honest opinions only! My feelings will not be hurt, criticism on blade condition is welcome.

@lonely panet, I am not guessing panet. You should be aware that the only 2 exceptions and I mean ONLY exception for a true, type 19 Japanese parade saber to have samegawa is to either be 1. police superintendent type 19 which this saber is NOT due to the 10 leaf cherry blossom and no imperial sun on the backstrap and 2. A custom ordered type 19 which is VERY rare as the Japanese army uniform regulations specify that commissioned officer below General would have black Buffalo horn grip. My opinion on this being a fake is not uninformed nor is it “guessing” as you suggest. If you examine the engraving of the cherry blossom you should see that the engraving is poor, almost weak similar to the Chinese parade version of the plum blossom. Furthermore, the braid on this handle is TIGHT. If you make a case that the cherry blossom engraving is weak due to this blade being an “early model” or a model “heavily used” than that braid should be fraying off the handle. Instead, the gold gild on the braid is bright and uncorroded despite the blade and scabbard being in beyond poor condition. You should ask yourself why the handle does not match the blade. There is nothing wrong with using pictures to examine swords. I understand I am new to militaria but, I am making an effort. I have purchased 8, type 19 parade sabers in the past 2 months. The pictures reflect exactly what I received. Holding it in my hand is nice, but my determination would be no different due to well taken pictures by the seller. I don’t say this in arrogance but respectfully that my opinion on this type 19 being fake is not baseless nor on others opinions. I appreciate @Bruce Pennington for responding, we should all work together building this art up. As I foresee the militaria section of NHMB growing exponentially in the coming years.

Neat find Tom!

Here is another alleged type 19, note the ray skin handle in place of the horn handle. Also, the appearance of age and rust but tight gold rope wire wrap? Wire is too thick compared to counterparts. The cherry blossom lacks detail and looks like a generic attempt at an original. No scroll work on the top of the hilt where the hilt sweeps up. Overall, the engraving is poor, my bet is a Chinese fake, thoughts?

It gets better Bruce, seller is asking 600 USD 😂

Hey Seth, they’re different sellers. I have just been going through different eBay categories. The above one you see is jacky1314us the sandy looking type 19 is stephaniemic and the sandy type 8 would be pakomor-70. What I do is I search in Asian antiques starting with Japan, then China (for Manchukuoan or other colony variants). Next I go to collectibles>militaria. Then I go through every category, Indian wars and after (I do this as I am going through the time period not necessarily the war the category is labeled, I have had great success with this). I’ll also frequent other poorly labeled categories in eBay that no one ever goes to to see if a sword has been placed in the wrong category. eBay sellers are terrible at titling swords. I bought a nice gunto with traditional blade in it from the Russo-Japanese war that was simply labeled Russian Japanese War sword, the bid didn’t go over 330 USD. I’ve also picked some type 19s up labeled “WWII military sword” and have even laughably seen some type 19s labeled antique Japanese military Katana. The parody is hilarious but the reward of finding these pieces is worth it. That one I just mentioned that I purchased has a mon on it that the seller didn’t even noticed and I purchased the 19 for $150. All this to say, out of the 70ish type 19s I have seen in the past month, the only obvious fakes I have seen are posted in here. So far it has been 2, maybe 3.

Found another interesting piece for y’all’s consideration. Below you will see what is clearly a type 19 copy. This is not a Manchukuoan type 19. The hilt has 3 cherry blossoms going straight across the hilt instead of 4 that are separated by a border. The acid etching for the hamon is too high. The Bo-hi starts way to far away from where the habaki should be but is not present. The manchukuoan flags are not present but flags with what I believe are single, suns. A 20 stamen plum blossom is also present. A large, sun is present on the hilt that is not accompanied on manchukuoan types which I am assuming is Chinese. My question is, I did not think the Chinese made a copy of the type 19?! This is clearly a jab at the general parade sword as you can see the turtle shell grip.

This item, is being offered as a, “ Authentic Pre WWI Japanese Navy Naval Sword ( 23 1/4” Long ) Very Rare“. But, appears to have the similarities of a brass handled artillery sword. However, those swords as outlined on page 92 of Dawson’s are not ornate and have serial numbers on the cross guard, which this sword has neither of. The sword is also not accompanied with the leather frog that would help bolster this blades claim to Japanese heritage. The blade is also missing the Bo-hi that runs down the center of artillery blades. If this sword is legit, the youngest it can be is 1898 but so far, legitimacy is in question. The saving grace is, Dawson has made a note on page 218 of the Naval section that his book does not cover the “experimental designs” during 1883 the navy used. The foreign crest on the back of this blade could make sense as the Japanese did a similiar order for type 8s from Germany that still had Solingen marking on it and the Japanese merely placed Imperial acceptance marks on the blades. It’s is plausible this is an experimental contract sword but the odds are EXTREMELY against this sword. The casting is also sloppy and not crisp. Please let me know what y’all think. The item has been up for a while.

I hope so Bruce, I sent him our link. Guess time will tell