Nihonto student

Dear Alex, having the measurements of the blade would help to evaluate the period and tighten the circle, takanoha yasurime are not very common in the Shinto period, from the photos I would also seem to see an O kissaki or elongated chu kissaki (I could easily be wrong given the different angles of the photo), so at first glance it seems to me compatible with Mino den late Muromachi, perhaps https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KAN1756 or https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KAN1757 Regards, Giordy

At least in this case they had the foresight to place a blade on a suitable surface to photograph it...when I see their photos with the blades on the floor I feel indignant...gimei or not, quality or not but an ORIGINAL piece deserves however respect... you can expect this from a person unaware of this world, but from a professional seller definitely not.

When you realize your blade will be burned by a laser

Beautiful execution Manuel! Congrats!

By running masame we mean when the texture is composed of streaks that tend to be wavy instead of being perfectly straight (Forgive me for the simplistic definition). in the shinogi ji I see both pure Masame and running masame, in the hira ji mostly itame, with running masame and some Mokume formations (So I agree with your reading). Masame/running masame in the shinogi ji and itame/masame/mokume in the hira ji reflects Mino's style, (Also the hada in general looks a bit rought and Mino is not famous for magnificent jigane). Yamato generally = masame /running masame or Masame/itame mix but the texture tends to be homogeneous in both shinogi ji and hira ji and the masame or running masame tends to be consistent even when mixed with itame. Regarding the Hamon, suguha is common in all periods, schools and traditions, if we talk about the Koto period, Yamashiro and Yamato are the most famous for suguha. Consider that Mino tradition is essentially a mix between Yamato and Soshu tradition. My evaluation is therefore based on the fact that having a different texture between shinogiji and hira ji and the fact that the masame is not so prominent in its entirety, makes me lean towards Mino rather than Yamato. PS: for the mune the construction form is indicated first, in this case is Iori mune (Roof) hikushi refers to the height of the "roof" we can also define it as gentle oroshi. It's difficult for me to say about Boshi from the photos, I would say sugu ko maru but given the lack of definition it could be nie kuzure. BTW just my opinion Hunter, there are much more knowledgeable people than me here. Regards, Giordy

Christies blade has the classic Mishina boshi, if you then look carefully at the mei it's a completely different thing.

I'm referring to the mei, also it's difficult for me to read the boshi from the photos but it seems to me hakikake that is uncommon compared to the classic Mishina Boshi (Sugu - ko maru pointed)

Hello Hunter, I'm happy to see your second blade, here I could be completely off track, curious to see other opinions: O kissaki (We are borderline between O Kissaki and elongated chu kissaki) shallow sori and kasane so thin make me think at first glance of a blade from the Nambokucho period but considering the machiokuri with the position of the ana it makes me think that the nagasa was originally around 73 - 74cm which is a bit short for the average of that period therefore also looking at the patina of the nakago I would be more oriented towards Momoyama period where a revival of Nambokucho sugata began in a smaller version... regarding the school I would stick with Mino, masame/masame running doesn't seem so clear to me for a call on Yamato, but I'm not very well versed in the Yamato tradition so as I have said I might be completely off track. Regards, Giordy

Hello Adam, for me 2gen but the signature doesn't convince me much... the kiku mon is also missing... Giordy

Dear Colin, obviously this interesting reflection (Comparable to be or not be) giving rise to many points of view, the word art already in itself has very personal connotations... my 2 cent hoping not to be eaten . The smith's initial approach Looking generally from this side, the approach of the blacksmiths in the Koto period was mainly aimed at functionality, if we look only at aesthetics approach we should consider art starting from the Shinto period with some derivations along the way (Fukkoto movement, WW2 etc.). For some art = shinsakuto, in the book "The Japanese sword. Home of the gods" Kawachi says (I don't have the book at hand) something like:" I hope the world continues to remain at peace but if war returns use my swords to defend yourselves" , making it clear that functionality remains essential for him. Ability If we look at the paintings, what differentiates a Van Gogh worth millions of Euro from a painting by a Mr. Nobody from the same period? (Obviously without looking at the subject of the work itself) We can talk about technique, the immediacy in the transmission through image of an abstract concept, the stylistic reflection of the historical period, the personal vision that comes out etc...someone will also see art in the painting by Mr. Nobody (Granted) but at least looking at the Western way an artist and his works must be recognized as such and therefore the "experts" and enthusiasts in the following years have weighed all the above-mentioned characteristics together with other variables and have placed Van Gogh at a higher artistic level. It is not necessarily the case (in reality in most cases) that the artistic qualities are recognized immediately, in this Van Gogh has a lot in common with Kiyomaro for example as at the time a blade by Masahide was valued much more, today the valuation has changed a lot. I get to the point by saying that imho in the Nihonto the aestetical qualities and the blacksmith's control over them demonstrated through the proportions of the blade, hada, hataraki, hamon must manifest themselves consistently and (As regards hataraki) in a certain quantity to be able to speak of a work of art, the quality and coherence of these combined with historical/stylistic context differentiate the level of the artist. Ps:my thinking is generally freer and reflects Sam's post, but imho if we have to set limits on the word art in a certain context we must necessarily dissect different topics and give greater and lesser weight to certain factors.

Pandora's box has been opened .

For me too Hozon or TH it makes no difference Mark, don't get me wrong, no certainty of any kind... I simply wanted to highlight that behind the certificates before 2011 there can be more variables than a fresh one. All the best, Giordy

Hello Ryan, technically it is a wakizashi, katana starts from 60.7cm nagasa (blade's edge) regarding the blade: definitely from the Mino tradition, such a regular and defined sanbonsugi hamon leads me towards a late Kanemoto generation, I wold say late Muromachi period but other measure of the blade like sori would be usefull. BTW just my opinion. Regards, Giordy

Paul you have best completed my perception, my paranoia began about three months ago when I saw a Mutsu no Kami Tadayoshi wakizashi, the blade had Hozon I don't remember if 2007 or 2008, although absolutely plausible (To me the blade does not it looked at all bad even if in an old polish and with some scratches) I thought it was strange that such a name received only Hozon (I don't want to generalize obviously it's the blade that is evaluated but I think the name still has a certain weight) therefore there could have been other implications behind this assessment.

Thank you for sharing your experience Paul, an experience that fits perfectly with the idea that I wanted to bring to attention and that is that if we are faced with a blade with a Hozon certificate issued before 2011 (If the year is correct) we do not think by default that the blade fail Tokubetsu, but there may be cases in which the blade was simply sold before a second evaluation step ,perhaps scheduled as in your case.

Thank you very much Mark, it would be interesting to know in which year the change occurred, I'll explain my point of view to understand if my intuition is correct: if it was possible to request shinsa for Juyo having only Hozon this automatically means for me that the Tokubetsu was more important than the Hozon "Only on paper" because in the end it made little sense to ask for shinsa also for Tokubetsu (And maybe pay more?) when the basic Hozon certification was enough to access the next level...

Thanks Grey, forgive me perhaps I expressed myself badly... I was referring to the shinsa sessions necessary to obtain the certificate, today Hozon and Tokubetsu hozon are issued in the same session depending on whether or not the blade meets the necessary requirements for Tokubetsu, I wonder whether it has always been like this since 1982 or there was a period in which Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon were two distinct sessions. Giordy

Dear members, I would like to ask if the NBTHK evaluation steps have remained the same since 1982 (New system) or if there have been changes over the years. Today a blade at its first evaluation can receive Hozon or Tokubetsu Hozon but has it always been like this? Or were there years in which the steps were separate, so to obtain Tokubetsu the blade had to already have Hozon? Thank you for kind help Giordy

The concept of "like" is relative... I too, like many others in the forum, like blades that are stylistically different and from different eras, but you have to know how to evaluate, if we're talking about a purchase over 50k (Even if it were over 10k) this must be justified and at this moment you don't have the knowledge to make an evaluation...so the ways to avoid being cheated are: - study and perhaps start with some medium level pieces as suggested by many - If you don't want to wait you have to rely on someone to guide you and make the necessary assessments for you In any case, take your time, there are always blades on sale... Giordy

Dear Eva, I would like to express the concept in another form. Your post can be summarized as: "I would like to buy a painting but I don't know whether to buy a Da Vinci, Van Gogh, Monet or Picasso. Based on this the discussion can evolve wildly because at this level many considerations can (Must) be made... but in the end no one can tell you what to buy because it is a personal taste... considerations can be made on the price of a blade whether it is in line with the market or less, or that one artist has more appeal on the market for certain reasons than another... the fact remains that this forum has first of all an educational purpose, therefore as suggested the main advice remains to deepen the study in so that you can develop your personal knowledge and personal taste to better direct your choices, relying on a professional as well as participating in meetings of enthusiasts will certainly speed up your learning curve. All the best, Giordy

you are comparing completely different works and eras so, if there is no rush, I would take some time to delve deeper into the topic and as Michael said perhaps rely on an expert who can best guide you. Talking about Top notch from an investment point of view imho a Koto sword will always have more appeal and solid market than a new blade. Seyundo's Tadayoshi is magnificent... but if you buy from them you have to forget the word investment. Regards, Giordy

Hunter, you're on the right way, it's clear that you've spent some time on it and this is in itself a sign of a good attitude, keep going!!. Some considerations: the sori is related to the nagasa, a sori of 1.4 in relation to the nagasa 45.4 is an accentuated curvature, if you had a nagasa of 70 with the same sori it would instead be moderate. Regarding the hamon the term midare is generic (Midare = irregular) practically all hamon are midare with the exception of the pure suguha. In your case we have a Gunome midare, Kirill (Rightly) used the word periodic to describe it, this indicates that even if the individual patterns are irregular (Midare) and differ from each other they still tend to repeat themselves constantly. I look forward to seeing your other blades soon ;). Regards, Giordy

Hello Hunter, grouped gunome, togari and some tobiyaki combined with the classic Muromachi sugata... it is a blade from the sue Seki school of the Mino tradition. Arriving at a single attribution is much more complicated, stylistically there is a lot of similarity between Seki smiths in the late Muromachi. Regards, Giordy

Hello Mark, I agree with Kirill assessment, I add that considering the suriage the mekugi at the bottom would seem too high to be considered as shinobi ana therefore I would be inclined to think that the original mekugi is the central one...we will therefore have a nagasa around 65 cm which would fit perfectly with a classic mid-Muromachi uchigatana...if the last ana was the original one, the shape would actually be a bit strange. Regards, Giordy

Ciao Daemon, I start from the fact that the evaluation of a blade must be done individually, each blade is a story in itself... on paper, considering that the price is from a dealer located in Italy (Very well known and respected) it seems to me quite in line with the market, it is difficult to think of doing super bargain by buying from a dealer in Europe, due to taxes and bureaucracy. Masahiro is certainly a respected blacksmith, but are there any particular reasons that push you to make this choice? For that price there is a wide choice... Regards, Giordy