Nihonto student

Dear Jean, no hada and the "hamon" seems artificially made, I don't see anything good so I suggest you to pass this time and save your money for something worth... in the meantime, carefully read the section dedicated to fakes (Nihontoinfo>research>fake Japanese swords) and also try to see as many blades as possible, focusing on the individual details (Hada, hamon etc..). Train your eye to look at what is good and what is not need time and study... take your time to understand and to create your personal taste regarding the periods/authors/works, in this way I can assure you that you will be much more satisfied with your purchase... don't rush, there are always blades on sale. All the best Giordy

Dear Jean, I can't help you with the interpretation of the oval signs, but I don't see the shinogi and this is very suspicious...

Thank you all for your support!!

Hello everyone, Can you please help me with the translation? Thanks in advance for your time

Thank you Ray!

Gentlemen, can anyone help me with the translation? Thank you

Personally Brian, I think that the main reason is the cultural model of reference with respect to art, there is a tendency to trivialize the approach of the Western world "a painting with a false signature is a fake" and consequently the quality of the work and the capabilities of the artist are not even considered... it's a fake and that's it... entering into another mentality of judgment is not a simple step, it presupposes a certain attitude.

Hi Lewis, in this case the blade is not suriage the last ana is a shinobi ana.

Minh, Gimei doesn't mean that the blade is fake... it means that the signature is fake... I only saw the nakago of your blade but I can tell you that it is definitely an original Japanese blade, no doubt about that... it is also true that AOI sells blades without certificate but in that case it always indicates "Signature not guaranteed" or sometimes Tsuruta San exposes himself by saying that the blade will certainly obtain certification if subjected to shinsa other times he even points out that the signature is false but if will be removed, the blade will obtain certification (The latter is an operation that I honestly do not agree with ethically but it is part of the game). I won't expose myself about your signature (My idea already transpires from previous posts), I invite you however to check what the author's rough quotations are and compare them with the price you paid to get an idea, starting from the fact that a dealer in Japan in 99% of cases knows exactly what he is selling. To conclude, I have nothing to gain by judging your blade or that of Adam Gimei or not (apart from the fact that my evaluation counts for nothing), and furthermore I have nothing against Gimei blades in general because a false signature does not mean automatically that the quality of the blade is poor. I try to make you understand that the problem is the economic point of view... if tomorrow you want to resell that blade and you tell me Giordy I'm sure it's an original Tadayoshi so my request is X my reasonable answer (Like many others) would be ok send it to Japan and if it is certified I will buy it and all the expenses for the certification will be at my expense (Obviously this presupposes that the blade is of interest to me and that I can afford the requested amount). On the one hand I would hope that both you and Adam would submit your blade to Shinsa because in this way the forum could have an effective feedback and believe me I would be very happy if both blades will be certified because it would mean I learned something new, but from my point of view however there are many alarm bells I would tend to advise against it because the risk would increase the economic loss. Giordy

Adam, maybe I didn't understand the point, if you're asking me if I would spend that amount of money on a blade without paper the answer is definitely no, and yes I would have expressed the same opinion if the blade in question hadn't had the paper while still immediately recognizing that the the work is undoubtedly of excellent quality. Compared to your blade (Leaving aside the issue of the lack of certificate coming from Japan) I can express my opinion (Which however counts zero): I think your blade has some qualities and the signature isn't that bad but if I compare it with the one on sale the perception I have of the activity seems totally different, especially regards Jinie the one on sale definitely seems on another level but I admit that (In addition to the author's lack of knowledge) my reading may be distorted by the difference in the state of polishing of the two blades and by the photos. For me everyone is free to believe what they want, someone believes that their Chinese fake is worth 80,000,000 millions... I personally tend to have a very objective approach and for me the market has its unwritten rules... also especially for economic evaluation having the certificate also means having traceability to establish a value consistent with the work, establishing a value is already a complex thing... without any reference that gives a minimum of certainty everything becomes very questionable. Just my 2 cent. All the best, Giordy

Dear Mean, "probably" without knowing you said something correct, as you can see here https://www.hizento....i-8th-generation.php the first example you posted is the mei of Tadayoshi 8th in the first period of his career while the second example represents the mei in a later period, the evolution of the mei in the typology and design is a variable common to many other swordmakers but this does not mean that the evaluations are made randomly... there is a lot of study behind it. In your other post Brian has already told you that Tadayoshi's is among the most forged signatures ever, some forgeries are extremely well made and therefore a lot of experience is needed to evaluate. In this forum there are extremely competent people but I think I'm not wrong in telling you that no one (Also for professionalism issues) would bet their house on a signature by Tadayoshi without having at least seen the blade in his hand (We are talking about signature but obviously the work must be consistent with the characteristics of the swordsmith) or at least the signature must be a CLEAR fake. Anyway since this is a forum everyone can express their opinion based on their experience and not only regarding the mei, knowing the market general assessments can be made such as the origin of the blade, if the blade comes from Japan and is without NBTHK certificate it is 99% gimei because there is no reason for a seller in Japan not to certify it since it would acquire greater value and give greater security to the buyer...this is a general rule and if we talk about a big name like Tadayoshi it must be a mantra. Kind Regards, Giordy

I don't think this can be considered completely truth, the fact of having a precedent does not mean that this author only produced blades with non-standard nagasa, there are many blades that do not fall within "the standard" of the period in all periods, simply the fact of having a precedent for this author gives rise to thinking that it is not impossible. Takada school has "copying" in its dna even if with distinctive features, this without discrediting Bungo since my general opinion in this regard reflects that of Jussi, and personally I consider the blade in question a good example in relation to the school, its rustic nature aimed at practicality shines through. We cannot know when the blade was shortened and the reason... we can only speculate about it, it is also complicated to establish in monetary/percentage terms how much an (Possible) O-suriage affects blades price in this market segment (If we talk about market in general, Bungo blades are certainly not among the most sought-after blades), some person more expert than me will perhaps be able to provide an indication based on their experience, but in addition to the intrinsic value I think we must consider also the general sales appeal and certainly a ubu blade with nagasa 80+cm it would have much more appeal. Regards, Giordy

I saw this blade online, but I clearly respect Stefano's choice, I only say that the Hozon certificate attributes the blade to a specific Bungo Takada swordsmith. Stefano the certificate is valid (NBTHK) so I don't think there is any discussion about the attribution. Regarding the suriage I had the same doubts expressed in the previous posts, I didn't have time to do much research but I found a Juyo Token with a 81cm upper nagasa by the same author, the description (NBTHK) says:"From the first impression made by the shape, this tachi seems to be from no later than the Kamakura Period, is just a guess, but with the long tachi style, the smith seems to have made a katana modeled after Kamakura period classic masterpieces". This makes me think of a certain attitude of this swordsmith in taking previous sugata as a model, in your specific case (Having seen photos of the blade in full) I would say that the blade recalls the Nambokucho period therefore the perspective of a nagasa superior to the standard of its time seems plausible to me and therefore I think that the shortening was notable on your blade. (Only deductions, no certainties). Regards, Giordy

Thank you Piers

Gentlemen, I'm probably wrong but I can't find a match for Heianjo Yasuyuki, the character 幸 can also be read as Yoshi but I can't find a match for Heianjo Yasuyoshi either...does anyone have any references on this swordsmith? Maybe unlisted swordsmith?. My opinion matters little in relation to my experience but I fully agree with Kirill's comment especially regarding the character spacing, regarding the signatures it is obvious that most forgeries focus on well-known names but on the other hand I think that forgery a signature with an unlisted name (perhaps invented) or in any case with few or no references is still a possibility to consider, it is a more subtle forgery formula because without having certain references it cannot be said with certainty that it is Gimei. All the best Giordy

Thank you all for the clarifications, Giordy

I would have a million questions and it would go off topic...so just a couple of hint: The intriguing legend of "The Ten Students" may have twisted study such that independent men were assigned posthumous rolls not of their own creating. Based on this someone could also speculate that Yoshihiro wasn't even a student of Masamune, in my ignorance I ask if there are certain historical sources regarding this. From nihonto.us: As with the smith, Shizu Kaneuji (志津兼氏), swords exist from Yoshihiro (義弘) that are dated to a time before his study under Masamune (正宗). Early blades such as these show a strong Yamato (大和) influence. Obviously I won't express myself in saying whether the works after his apprenticeship with Masamune are qualitatively better, but I think we can agree that in any case his works considered earlier are not mediocre, therefore seem certainly another previous apprenticeship, also comparing the dates of their life (Not certain) in broad terms, Masamune would have been 50 to 60 years old (Top of his career) when Yoshihiro would have started his apprenticeship and to "knock on his door" I imagine it was necessary to provide references of a certain type.

I have no more information than you have Lewis, a complex topic for my knowledge even given the few references/certainties on the matter, someone more expert than me will certainly have better arguments than mine and therefore it makes no sense for me to launch into statements that don't have a solid base... regarding that, I think we can agree that stylistically Yoshihiro had various influences, what seems curious to me is how he acquired all these influences in such a short period of time... from what I've been able to read by the way I think that Yamato's traits mainly concern the hada, below is the description from the sho shin site: GO YOSHIHIRO GEN-O (f: NORISHIGE): GO-UMA-no-SUKE. "GO" is his short name, always piped with the greatest affection by the greatest of experts. Born: 1299, Died: 1325. MATSUKURA JU. Reputed as "The Best Student," he has been the focus of scholarly pursuit for six hundred years. The intriguing legend of "The Ten Students" may have twisted study such that independent men were assigned posthumous rolls not of their own creating. There are claims that there are no known SOSHU-style YOSHIHIRO swords. Blades known to be his are in YAMATO-style. Blades said to be his are seen in two styles, YAMASHIRO where KO-ITAME is the definer, and YAMATO, where MASAME is found. It is safe to call YOSHIHIRO a lover of YAMATO. Attributed blades are found, narrow with KO-KISSAKI, old style, medium with CHU-KISSAKI or NAMBOKUCHO, wide with O-KISSAKI. IHORI-MUNE that is steeply ridged. Extraordinarily fine-textured ITAME or running ITAME with MASAME that shows refined JI-NIE and CHIKEI. Steel is clear and bright. HAMON patterns maybe a rolling NOTARE-MIDARE mixed with GUNOME-MIDARE of wide and relatively even height. Pattern may widen or elongate in the MONOUCHI. ASHI falls from the line.SUNAGASHI with INAZUMA and long KINSUJI add depth. There is HOTSURE. The HABUCHI is NIOI-FUKASHI and KO-NIE. Some swords are CHU-SUGUHA with ASHI and YO. BOSHI can be MIDARE with ICHIMONJI-KAERI but ICHI-MAE BOSHI (fully tempered head) is the expected GO BOSHI. FUKASHI-KAERI. MEI: YOSHIHIRO ETCHU-no-KUNI YOSHIHIRO MATSUKURA-GO JU YOSHIHIRO

Dear Lewis, here some info especially regarding the Nabeshima Go: https://swordsofjapa...go-yoshihiro-katana/ Good info also in this post. Kind Regards, Giordy

I confirm you that this is a replica. Kind regards, Giordy

Dear Rasmus, more detailed photos of the blade and nakago would be needed, but from what I see I agree with Christian's opinion.

Dear Ron, this is from Sesko kantei, check also the pdf at the end for comparison. kurikara (倶梨伽羅) – According to legend, the guardian deity Fudô-Myôô (不動明王) once had to fight a deity from another religion, the dragon king Kurikara, written with the same characters as stated above. He changed himself into a flaming sword but Kurikara did the same and the fighting went on without a winner. But then Fudô-Myôô transformed into the dragon Kurikara, wound himself around the opponent’s sword, and ate it from the top. Also referred to as kenmaki-ryû (剣巻龍, lit. “dragon winding around a sword”). There are quite many kurikara interpretations but basically we differentiate between three approaches that follow the shin-gyô-sô mentioned at the beginning, i.t. shin no kurikara (真の倶梨伽羅, “full” or “realistic kurikara”), gyô no kurikara (行の倶梨伽羅, “more or less abbreviated kurikara”), and sô no kurikara (草の倶梨伽羅, “abbreviated,” “stylized,” or “abstrac kurikara”). A shin no kurikara is often seen on blades of Nobukuni, Heianjô Nagayoshi, of the Sue-Bizen school, at Awataguchi Ikkanshi Tadatsuna, Hizen Tadayoshi, Echizen Yasutsugu, Higo no Daijô Sadakuni, Suishinshi Masamune, Hosokawa Masayoshi, Taikei Naotane, and at the shinshintô and gendai Gassan school. A gyô no kurikara can be found on Nobukuni and Heianjô Nagayoshi blades, at Kagemitsu, the Sue-Bizen and Sue-Sôshû schools, Echizen Yasutsugu, Kotetsu, Hizen Tadayoshi, Taikei Naotane, and Tairyûsai Sôkan (泰龍斎宗寛). And a stylized sô no kurikara is typical for the Hasebe school, Nobukuni, Heianjô Nagayoshi, the Kanabô school, the Sue-Sôshû and Sue-Bizen school, the smiths around Osafune Kanemitsu, Awataguchi Ikkanshi Tadatsuna, Echizen Yatsuugu, Hizen Tadayoshi, the shintô Hôjôji school, Ômi no Kami Tsuguhira (近江守継平), Harima no Daijô Shigetaka (播磨大掾重高), Yamashiro no Kami Kunikiyo (山城守国清), and Taikei Naotane. And please note that Heianjô Nagayoshi often combined a gyô no kurikara and a sô no kurikara or two differently stylized sô no kurikara distributed on the two sides of one blade. The same peculiarity is seen at the Kanabô school. But it has to be pointed out that sometimes it is hard to say if a kurikara is shin or already gyô or gyô tending to sô. A variant or certain characteristic interpretation of a kurikara is the so-called harami-ryû (孕龍, lit. “pregnant dragon”). Here, the body of the dragon is somewhat at distance from the sword and with a curve of the thigh which makes it look like as if the dragon is pregnant. Such a harami-ryū is often found on swords by Nagamitsu and his Osafune main line successors https://markussesko....mparisonkurikara.pdf

Nakago scream fake...no shinogi, no yasurime and the ana appears to have been drilled yesterday...

Dear Simon, 52cm of nagasa means that it is a wakizashi not a katana, regarding the quality of the work, more detailed photos would be needed for a better analysis but at first glance it would seem to me to be a fairly basic piece from the Shinto period. Regards, Giordy