Link

Stephen, I think your almost 100% wrong let me explain, I joined this site as a complete newbi over a year ago and have learned a great deal from the collective brain trust on this site and would like to thank you and all the rest of the experts who take there time with the new guys. I have mined this site a number of times and have taken advice from it so I know other newbis have done the same. I think what it boils down too is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" I do a fair amount of consulting and I always laugh when someone pays me for advice then turns around and completely ignores the advice those type of people are as rienhardt says "are on there own" I think a Newbi FAQ would be a benefit to the site. Anyway thanks again to NMB Larry

PM sent. Larry

I didn't mean for ebay to check auctions. I meant the guys buying stuff that is falsely described (that is fraud) should be pissed off enough to do something about it. I have bought parts off ebay that were mis-represented to say the least, my complaint plus a few more had the seller banned and I got all my money back. Bottom line is those sellers should be banned, I don't know maybe if your dumb enough to buy that crap you don't have enough brains to file a complaint.

Ebay has a fraud policy and I wonder why they allow these guys to continue to lie in there product descriptions ? If the buyers of this junk are happy and not filling complaints that's one thing, but if I was a legit Ebay dealer selling real nihonto I would be raising hell with Ebay.

:rant Brian Me too I signed up and paid about 5 days ago and still can not log on

Wow, I just started collecting/studying and really disagree with the "treasure hunt" is over and now nihonto collecting is going to die with some generation. From the posts here the shows & prices have taken a hit, that's a real shocker ! Were in the worst economic downturn since the depression it's no mystery why the shows are slow. Have some faith because when the next dot.com or re-fi boom hits the people will be collecting again. I do agree that there simply isn't enough product to keep a large group interested a big problem for me (the new collector) is the only place to buy seems to be the internet and it would be foolish for me to do that since it takes years to gain enough experience to know what your really buying and I think most people with enough money to collect are smart enough to figure that out pretty quick. I almost went to the Chicago show but decided to wait for the SF show I do hope there are more than a few "rusty old blades" for sale there. All in all there are many reasons interest is falling off in the US but it may be better in the long run. It seems that in Japan they collect to collect not to treasure hunt they have brick & mortar stores that are in it for a profit but it has to be passion behind it or they would be out of buss. rather quickly. There may never be such shops in the U.S. but the next generations of U.S. collectors might take care of the young (educate,help and sometimes take a loss to keep someone involved) a tight knit community of honest passionate people can create a profitable (at least enough to keep it alive) rewarding hobby. I come from a racing background which is much more expensive than nihonto and the young blood helped keep us older guys in it. We trained em, encouraged them and never burned em or laughed at them for there lack of skill/money or equipment. We sold em are used stuff at huge losses so we could pay or at least supplement are addiction. The racing industry has no shortage of new product for sale. When I was coming up guys gave me a lot & in turn I ended giving it all back plus more. If you only collect to gain money then your right the end is here. Larry

This site has a lot of info. and will show you sword length and names. http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm

If your looking for "facts" nihonto is not a great place to start. Hang around awhile and you'll see what i mean :lol:

Well I was going to take Reinhards advice & try & figure this out which probably would have led to at least another dumb ass post by yours truly..... Guido you saved me from being spanked again ! Regardless I picked up some more insight from this thread. Thanks to all

Brain, I wasn't trying to step on any toes here or hurt a sellers rep. (I'm not sure what your implying) I have no interest in buying anything off ebay. I was just interested in this sword and mei. I apologize to any one who took this the wrong way and if this thread is hurting some ones business then by all means delete this thread.

What can you tell from the pic. ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0330779854 I'm new at this but the mei on Erics (nice looking sword!) blade looks much "cleaner" or more defined like it was done with care & skill the one on the ebay sword looks a bit "rough" or done with a heavy hand. If any body has the time I'd like to hear your opinion on the ebay swords mei. Thanks

Thanks, I've seen many adds that say "Koto sword" and not really knowing any better I wasn't paying attention or thinking about the translation/meaning of koto.

Why are you looking for a koto bizen sword? (just curious as I don't even know what koto bizen means) But, One of the swords I bought was advertised as a Koto bizen katana. The reason is I have a very beautiful shinto katana and a Bizen wak. mei is Sukesada from the late muromachi period an ok blade but it is one of the lesser quality mass produced swords from that era so to expand my (tiny) collection I'm looking for a sword that really stands out as a Bizen prob. late 1400's early 1500's. "Koto" covers hundreds of years so I guess I should be more detailed. Thanks again for the replies, next time I'll do a search prior to posting up !

I could not find that full name in the 3 books I have unless the english version is shortened (I can't read the Japanese) maybe in the book I have the Yokoyama Sukesada (page 269 connoisseur's book of Japanese swords) is really Yokoyama Kozuke Daijo Fujiwara Sukesada in Japanese ? I am looking for a Koto Bizen sword and was trying to match the smith to a period and the closet I found was Yokoyama Sukesada so my question is, is Yokoyama Sukesada the same smith as Yokoyama Kozuke Daijo Fujiwara Sukesada ? It sounds like they are so I'm thinking this is a shinto blade. Thanks

I'm wondering on this mei, it just looks a bit off in the pics. but from what I have found the only mei close to the one on this sword is Yokoyama Sukesada from edo period. Does any one know of a smith that signed "Yokoyama Kozuke Daijo Fujiwara Sukesada" ? And what is the Junin in the "Bishu Osafune Junin" ? I'm not going to bid on this sword as I don't know enough to start droping big money on ebay items (I'm looking for a Koto Bizen blade). I guess I'll need to buy a hawleys book the 3 books I have are more for learning the basics of nihonto so for the moment I'm curious and looking for a little help. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0330779854 Thanks in advance

Wow, with the amount of good/great info. on this site and a membership that collectively seems to be above average intelligence than a lot of other special interest forums I would expect a much higher membership although I have no idea how many people actually collect nihonto & related items but with the amount of stuff for sale on web alone I would think there would be at least 5 times more members than the current number of 700-1000. Anyway don't sell your self short Brian this is a great site. Thanks

Old guys with money = sports cars, mistress, motorcycle, Nihonto ? I guess some of us are just smarter than the other guy's ! I think it would be interesting to find out at what age the collector started. 50 years young for me.

Gunther, listen to Paul. I am also new to the sword game and bought a really good quality shinto blade and have been able to study the blade to no end (so far). It was made by a low ranked smith but he out did him self on the blade I bought and I'm much happier with quality than a little flash. I don't think other than status you won't get a lot out of a 1300.00 koto blade. Just my 2 cents Good luck

No need for being sorry this is an open forum. Now you list your price range things are a bit clearer. Start searching ebay as that will probably be the only place where you'll come across a Koto blade for $1300. I was bidding on a "Koto" blade that went for under $1100 the blade was listed as being signed by Sukesada & dated 1551 the guy said the blade had flaws but for the price (if the sign. is legit) it looked OK. I asked the seller if he would take back the sword if the mei turned out to be a fake He ignored the question so I stopped bidding at $300.00 Good luck in your search Larry Brian that flap jack looks gimei to me

I'm with Gunther let me know where I can buy an "affordable" Koto sword and I'll take 2 ! :D

Thanks for the replies all of em make sense. I saw a beautiful blade this week-end at a knatei session and the sori or lack of sori in this case I think really put people going in the wrong direction (good fun for the guy who owned the sword !) any way the blade turned out to be shin shinto I think most had it pegged for early edo, So as sori goes you just never know.

Another question not worthy of reply ? Can some one at least tell me why there's no opinions on this ? If there's something in print (english) I will read it. If it's a completely stupid question let me know. I would say that 2 cm on a 70 cm sword would be considered deep (now you guys have me talking to my self) but how would some one with no knowledge of this find out. Thanks

Hi all, from what I've read I only see sori described as shallow or deep and from my un-trained eye that dosn't tell me a lot so I was wondering what would be considered deep measured in cm on a katana with a nagasa of aprx. 70 cm ? I've been trying to connect the dots from the blade shape,hamon ect.ect to the correct den mino, yamato ect. the quandary I have is the blade is early edo and dosn't really seem to match the den style or school it came from the den was soshu which seems to have lost most of it's characteristics by the shinto period (if I'm understanding what I've been reading) It would be easy to and maybe correct to call this blade wakimono but I'm just trying to expand my limited sword smarts . Anyway I know what a 2cm sori looks like on a 70cm katana but I don't know if thats considered deep or shallow. Thanks

Just wanted say Thanks there's some great info there.

Seems you've got this one already (=written by Nagayama Kokan) reinhard I told you Dumb-Ass is a much better fit for me than newbi. Thanks again