Soshin

Yes Henry that is what I was referring to in starting this thread. While I do have some revival Tosho style tsuba from the Edo period that are clear copies of early work. I can also say that I also have some labeled Tosho style tsuba that display a fair amount of independent artistic character using general Tosho techniques such as in-sukashi (negative silhouetting). The tsubashi was I think trying to execute a more complex naturalistic design not seen in the earlier Tosho style tsuba from the Nambokucho and Muramachi Periods. Thanks for providing the reference "Tsuba no Bi" I will try to find it. Yours truly, David S.

I a interested in doing some more research about Tosho tsuba from the Momoyama and early Edo periods. Could anyone point me in the direction of some information about Tosho tsuba made during these time periods. I have some good references for Nambokucho and Muramachi Period Tosho works but don't have any references with good examples and information dating from the Momyama Period and onward to the early part of the Edo period. I will be sure to ask for some examples at the Tampa Sword Show this weekend. Thanks in advance for helping me with my next research tosogu project. Yours truly, David S.

Some really great pieces. I will be at the Tampa Show this year and will make sure to stop by for a look. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Everyone, The tsuba I posted with the coin design in ji-sukashi is now in Japan for NBTHK shinsa. Will keep everyone posted as to the results. Yours truly, David S.

I was going to say that the kin-zogan (gold inlay) looks real and consistent with work of the late Edo period on the dragon tsuba. The cross hatching of the gold inlay is clearly visible. Yours truly, David S.

I think something that should not be overlooked about this tsuba being a middle to late Edo Period Nobuie copy or not. The condition of the tsuba is very poor the surface has much active red rust. I know this will affect the color of the iron patina greatly. The surface reminds me of a Satome school tsuba that I have before I started the very long process of removing the rust with using natural methods outlined at the end of Sasano's first book and discussed on the Tosogu message board. With this tsuba the removal process of the red rust is complicated by prescence of some gold inlay work something I don't think you see in original Nobuie works of the first two generations from the Momoyama or early Edo Periods. Yours truly, David S.

Looking at the other tsuba I would say that it is also signed Tadatsugu in a similar manner as your original tsuba. I have been told that Tadatsugu was a very prolific artisan during the middle Edo period. He might have also had some students under him allowed to use his name. The linked tsuba has a more simpler tosho feel to it but I would still classify it as a Umetada school tsuba. The overall shape of the tsuba is also characteristic of Umetada school and not at all Tosho. Blossoms and kamon are a common motif found in tsuba made by the Umetada school. I have a middle Edo period Umetada tsuba that also has a nice Kamon motif over a nice tsuchimei-ji with maru-bori carved clouds. Yours truly, David S.

I just wanted to posted a update on this topic I started about half a year ago. I have been doing some work on this Satome School tsuba and have improved the surface by removing active red rust. Here are some new scans of the same tsuba after my careful cleaning of the rust. From examining the scans it looks like I still have some more work to do. I will be bring the tsuba to the Tampa Sword Show as Jim Gilbert has offered to take a look at the tsuba. I am still thinking the tsuba is likely early Edo due to its thickness and shape of the kogai hitsu-ana. Comments and questions are always welcome. Your truly, David S.

I would agree the tsuba looks be be classic example of work done by Umetada (埋忠) Tadatsugu (忠次) singed with a nijimei. The date I but on this work is from circa 1675 - 1725 CE. Which is during the middle Edo Period contemporary with the masters Umetada Shigenaga and Umetada Muneyuki. Thanks for sharing photos and starting the discussion. Yours truly, David S.

After reading the topic a few times I have came to the conclusion that at fundamental conservation point should be restated just so that this thread does not create some confusion. This was originally stated in the original post by Keith G. Lacquer of different types original to many very old (circa Early Edo, Momoyama, Muromachi Periods) tsuba should not be removed. My pubic service announcement has ended. Yours truly, David S.

Also wanted to post this scan of a Nanban tsuba with all of the typical characteristics of Nanban tsuba (stylized seppa-dai design, dote-mimi, and no signature) but with a motif of many monkeys setting in trees all in different positions. The intermeshed arms, legs, and tree branches create a familiar Nanban-bori arabesque pattern frequently made of vines in more typical Nanban tsuba. This tsuba could have been made by a Nanban tsubashi trying to imitate the monkey designs seen in the Yagami school. Yours truly, David S.

I just wanted to post some scans of this month NBTHK magazine (Issue #648, pg. 21) that like last month was featuring the Nanban group in the tosogu section. Here are two tsuba by the Yagami school that show even more of a Nanban influence then the classic school motif of the two thousand monkeys. Right now I am a little "on the fence" about if Yagami school should or should not be included the large Nanban group. These two tsuba have many design elements seen in the large Nanban group. Yours truly, David S.

Well technically speaking Hirado and Nagazaki are both port cities located near each other in what was once Hizen Province. They both had a degree of European and Chinese influence that affect a tsuba produced there. Therefore using the Torigoye and Haynes classification system I would think the first tsuba would be classified as Namban as I think there is a bit stronger European influence with the use of the stylized Roman letters. I was thinking the second linked tsuba was a Kagonami but I am not really sure as I have not seen many tsuba of this type described as Kagonami. The two thousand-monkeys-designs is another design that comes like John L. says from artists of Hizen Province that shows a great degree of non-Japanese influence and also by their location near Hirado and Nagazaki cities in Hizen are often given the Namban label. Thanks John L., Jim, and others for the discussion. Yours truly, David Stiles

Hi Bernad, The Heianjo Shinchu Zogan school does but Mr. Holbrook was referring to the old name for the Kyo Sukashi school which is Heianjo Sukashi. Hi Andrey E., Having also purchase some tsuba from the same collection and I love each tsuba very much (thanks Grey) but I have revised about a little more then half of Mr. Holbrook original attributions. Your tsuba here I don't think is Kyo Sukashi school but maybe a nice Shoami work done with sukashi. I collect and like Shoami tsuba and have many in my collection. Thanks for sharing and discussing the nice tsuba. Yours truly, David S.

The first Namban tsuba you linked to has a strong European influence. This is apparent characters at the bottom of the tsuba which has stylized Roman letters. Most of the information I have about Namban tsuba is from Tsuba An Aesthetic Study where Torigoye and Haynes spends some three pages on the subject. They divide the very wide group of Namban into three subgroups: Namban, Kanton, and Kagonami. The original Namban style had has strong European influences like the first tsuba you linked to were made in the southern port cities of Hirado and Nagasaki. The very early Muromatchi Period tsuba made in Chinese for export to Japan are also classified as Namban. The Kanton were those tsuba that had a kaku or dote mimi with engraved designs showing a strong southern Chinese style influence with Chinese dragons and a very symetrical design. These were copies of the earlier Chinese style Namban export from China during the Muromatchi Period. The Kagonami also had the Chinese style dragon and other mythical animals but with a asymetrical design that are very complex in detail. You see that in the second tsuba you linked to. By the end of the Edo period there were production places all over Japan including the original places in Kyushu and Edo, Kyoto, Aizu, and Yokohama. Mostly only copies of the Kanton style of Namban were being produced of varying quality. Here are some quick scans I have of my tsuba. I think it is a classical Kanto (Namban) tsuba that shows the characteristic symmetric design with Chinese style dragons casing a diamond. This type of craving techique in the surface of the tsuba is called Namban bori. The overall size of the tsuba is a little bit on the small side at 6.9 ✕6.5✕ 0.5 cm. The scans show the very dark sakudo fukurin very well. I am not sure when the sakudo fukurin was added to mine but I have assigned a middle Edo Period age to the tsuba based up on accumulation of dust and oxidation in the sukashi; and the deep color to the patina. Yours truly, David S.

Just my two cents on the topic. I really like your large nanban tsuba and I am a lover of the school as well. I would generally consider it a part of the Kanton subgroup of Nanban as I do see Chinese and not European influences in the motifs and design layout. The undercutting that others are talking about are common in Nanban but I don't think are a requirement for inclusion into a very board school. I have a Kanton (Nanban) tsuba that has a Skakudo fukurin of a very dark color as well that I did not notice at first look while purchasing the tsuba on a vacation in Japan. I think the fukurin covers the undercutting of the mimi normally observed in Nanban tsuba. Yours truly, David S.

I would agree with Henry's analysis of the tsuba. The relief craving isn't very good and the tsuba also look badly hammered. I would venter to say that the tsuba looks as old as its Nihonto (i.e. Shin-Shinto era or Late Edo Period). Yours truly, David S.

I would agree with Henry I think the design is a kamon. I have seen similar designs in a iron piece in Gai So Shi by Robert E. Hayes specifically item #12. The tsuba date to the Muromachi Period. Go to the following link and look up the item in detail as there are high resolution photos on the web: http://www.nihonart.de/index_en.php. Yours truly, David S.

I have some beanie babys with wonderful painta and fine tekkotsu on their rim and the inside of the sukashi. I will bring them to the Tampa Show! Just kidding... I will be attending the show for the first time and can't wait as I have booked my flights and my hotel room. Just the idea of going to Florida in Feburary for a weekend sounds like a good idea given how cold it has been in Maryland. I am of course focused on what I am interested studying and collecting tosogu but I will still take some time to look around a bit at the Nihonto and other Japanese associated forms of art. Any advice to a show newbie is welcome. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Bernard, Even though one of the photos is a bit out of focus. It looks like the sakudo-nanako is of hight quality. Keep in mind that I am not a expert by any means on this subject. Also of the tiger along bamboo design is well done as well in takabori (high relief carving). Some wear to the gold inlay which is to be expected on a Edo period piece. There also also appears some minor damage to the backside which is also common wear spots of a kinko kozuka like this. Having a photos of both sides of the kogatana blade would also be nice as it looks like it has a mei. Thanks for sharing photos of your kozuka. Some of the more experienced people on the forum might be able to help. Yours truly, David S.

Happy New Year Everyone Yours truly, David S.

I am really not a kinko person so I really can't tell if it is Goto or not. I buy tosogu books with Kinko works in them but really don't collect them. Could you provide additional photos of good quality and detail that show the sakudo nanako body of the kozuka? Having a photo the other side of the kozuka would also be helpful. Yours truly, David S.

I must agree with Mark G. and Peter D. the tsuba looks like a modern cast iron tsuba. Not unlike a tsuba in terms of casting flaws I purchased off of eBay when I just started collection tsuba. Yours truly, David S.

Thanks for the comparison between the Owari Nobuie and a original Nobuie from the late Muromachi or Momoyama periods Steve. Having similar motifs in all three tsuba is very helpful. I would say that while my tsuba is not to the level of craftsmanship (specifically the mokko-gata form) of the original Nobuie I would say that my tsuba is closer then the Owari Nobuie example provided. I am drawing this conclusion based upon comparing the turtle shell kokuin design found in all three tsuba. My tsuba turtle shell kokuin on the Ji (surface) of the tsuba has a similar delicate melted appearance similar to the original Nobuie more so then the Owari Nobuie example. Yours truly, David S.

No I am not upset as I did not purchasing tsuba for the reason that I was thinking it dated from the Momoyama period. I was simply using the information provided by the tsuba former owner as a starting point to do my own academic research. I would consider all tsuba in my collection as study pieces per se. I have started to focus my collection on iron tsuba from the following school/groups Yagyu, Owari Sukashi, Nobuie and copies, Yamakichibei and copies, Tempo, Satome, Katchushi, Tosho , and Shoami. This tsuba I would consider it in the style of Nobuie likely made by one of the two generations of Norisuke tsubako of Owari. This tsuba is well within the context of what I collect. Does anyone know what works of the Owari Nobuie school look like and were they ever signed differently other then Nobuie? The Kaneko (金子) may be the signature of a early owner of the tsuba if made by either generation of Norisuke or the mei of someone working in the Owari Nobuie school during the late Edo period. Just wanted to edit the post and add some more ideas and questions relating to Japanese to English transliteration. I was thinking that there is more then one way to transliterate the Kanji 金子. Wouldn't it be equally correct to use Kinko as Kaneko? Does standardized Romaji have a specific conversion to address this? Having someone more experienced with tranliteration of Japanese signatures would be great. Thanks again for everyone taking the time to reply to my thread. Yours truly, David S.