Soshin

Completely agree with this statement. I think assigning a monetary value for different Nihonto related antique art (Jp. Tosogu) is beyond the scope of the this forum. I am of the opinion that this forum is more about determining authenticity and connoisseurship of Tosogu. Yours truly, David S.

Mariusz K., Thanks for the kind comments about the tsuba I picked up at the Florida Japanese Sword Show. I would consider the iron of my tsuba is a bit more homogeneous then the Ko-Shoami tsuba that Rich Turner once owned that was recently sold that you gave as another example. With that said I wound not consider my tsuba's iron completely homogeneous as there is tekkotsu and lamination folds can be observed along the sukashi opens and the out rim of the tsuba. This is why I agree with the attribution from the original owner as a early Edo Period Kyo-Shoami tsuba. I remember discussing this in another thread that the Kyo-Shoami group developed from the Ko-Shoami group after the Momoyama Period as the origin of the Ko-Shoami school was Kyoto. The "regional" Shoami school haven't develop yet in the Momoyama Period. This conclusion was developed by Bob Haynes and his teacher Dr. Torigoye. Rich's and my tsuba kind of supports this conclusion. I am sure there are others out there as well. Yours truly, David S.

I would like to think it is four inmari zushi as I really like this type of sushi but they are likely rice bales. :D Thanks Henry for better identifying the design used to compose the overall shippo design. Mariusz K., I think are correct in your analysis of the second tsuba posted by Hilik. The tekkotsu are over the top and a bit overdone. Yours truly, David S.

Mariusz K., Thanks for pointing that out as I had to double check the photos of the tsuba. The tsuba does appear to have the remains of a kinzogan inlay around the edge of the mimi. This type of inlay were very common in middle to late Edo Period Shoami school tsuba. As the quality of inlay wasn't that good to begin with they would often rub off during normal use of the tsuba. I can post some examples from my collection if anyone likes. As to the comparison of the iron and patina you can't really do that until you have the two tsuba in hand or unless you are able to take some professional quality photographs. With that said I still like the tsuba. :D Yours truly, David S.

I would generally agree with Steve's attribution as to the age and school for this tsuba (Shoami, early Edo Period). The basket weave motif is wonderful as well. For many Ko-Shoami tsuba made before the Edo Period the Kogaihitsu-ana and Kozukahitsu-ana are frequently of a non-standardized shape. The tsuba in question has fairly standard but rounded shape common to Edo Period Shoami school looking kogaihitsu-ana. Here is a Kyo-Shoami tsuba that has similar iron and patina that dates to the early Edo Period. In this tsuba the kozukahitsu-ana looks like it was added later as it cuts into the oval cravings made to highlight the rice balls (onigiri お握り) that make up the (shippo no zu 七寶の図) design. Yours truly, David S.

Steve, You are right the influence of Owari Sukashi school is only secondly at best on the later Higo school of Kamiyoshi. Sasano was pointing out the influcence of Owari Sukashi school primary on the early Hayashi Higo school. I am aware of the fact the Owari Sukashi was nearing its end by the Genroku Era of Edo Period. Thanks for the interesting and educational discussion. :D Yours truly, David S.

Posting measurements including the thickness of the tsuba would be helpful for study. Thanks. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Steve, That's likely true in regards to the correct interaction pattern of Owari Sukashi, Akasaka, and Ko-Shoami schools. But my general comment which I should have qualified better is the influence that Ko-Shoami had on the Higo schools such as Nishigaki and Hayashi. The idea of Owari Sukashi influencing Ko-Shoami and then Ko-Shoami then subsequently influencing some of the early Higo schools a interesting one. I have read in about two different books about influence of Ko-Shoami on some of the early Higo schools. Sasano in this first book classified Higo kinko schools into two different groups. The first group which had a Shoami (i.e. Ko-Shoami) influence included the Hirata and Nishigaki. The other group of schools had a Owari influence which included the Hayashi and Kamiyoshi. Keep in mind that Kamiyoshi school developed from the Hayashi school but share the same base Owari influence. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Rich K., I would agree with Grey's comments about the tsuba. The tsuba likely dates to the late Edo period. I have a number of tsuba form the late Edo and in similar overall style. With this type of tsuba the quality can easily be determined my the quality of the inlay work and the overall composition. The better tsuba of this style and time period which I would say is a mixture of Mito and Shoami schools is clearly indicated in the over all composition and the quality as well as the condition of the inlays. Many of lower quality tsuba from this time period would have damaged inlays because of the quality of the inlay to begin with was poor. In this respects I would consider your tsuba fairly average. Thank you for taking the time to post photos for discussion facilitate learning. Here is a tsuba I have from the same late Edo time period that has a much better composition in terms of the fishermen appears to be fishing into the nakago-ana (I love the use of perspective) and inlays are in a range of different soft metals which is more technically complex. (Fix a typo on my post sorry for any confusion. Wrote Mino and meant Mito.) Yours truly, David S.

I am of the opinion that early Akasaka (Ko-Akasaka) tsuba were influenced also by the Kyo-Sukashi as stated in the article as well as the Owari Sukashi school. The article quoted above has much of the same information that I remember reading in Tsuba An Aesthetic Study by Kazutaro Torigoye and Robert E. Haynes on the origins of the Akasaka school. The book also present an alternative theory that the school's origin lies in Owari Province. Thanks everyone for the interesting discussion. The only thing I do know is that all of the schools we are talking about were influenced by one of my favorite early schools the Ko-Shoami school. :D Yours truly, David S.

Thanks John B. for providing a good example and restarting this thread as I am a collector of the Umetada school. Kamon were a common design motif for the Umetada school either as sukashi or inlay and I own a good example that is done with brass inlays. Here is a link http://kodogunosekai.com/2009/12/05/umetada-sukashi-tsuba/ to a Kodogu no Sekai Blog showing a very similar tsuba to the original tsuba that started the thread. The author of the Blog Richard Turner cites as the maker of the tsuba in the Blog as Umetada Tadatsugu. Yours truly, David S.

Thierry and Fred D., I wonder what the size is for your tsuba Thierry? If it is katana size then bring the two tsuba together would make a very nice matching daisho set. :D Yours truly, David S.

Hi Fred D., I generally don't collect Higo school tsuba but I really like the Higo tsuba. The optical illusion is a cool effect I wonder if the tsubako knew this type of illusion would happen with this type of design across the surface of the tsuba? Yours truly, David S.

Dear Fred D., Thanks for the nice comment. I wasn't planning to purchase anything until my willpower broke down around Sunday morning at about 10:00 AM. :lol: Yours truly, David S.

Hi Cory, The fuchi and kashira was made by the Soten school. I can read some of the mei at it reads on the left side after turning the image counter clockwise as the orientation of the photo is completely wrong to read Japanese. Here is what I have transliterated into Roman letters: Sōheishi Sōten Sei. There is some additional information on the right side I will need to take some time to transliterate. If you post the fuchi in the translation forum I am sure there are people that can do a much quicker transliteration and translation. The tsuba was not done in a Soten school. The tsuba looks to be a product of the Late Edo Period done in a much earlier tachi style. The texture of the tsuba is interesting. If you want to know more please take a look at a tsuba I am currently selling that I think is of similar origin: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9730. I hope you find the information helpful. Yours truly, David S.

I purchased one tsuba from yumi3go55 and a few wooden boxes. The boxes were fine and the tsuba was fine. The tsuba being a Late Edo Period Tempo tsuba nothing special but also nothing wrong or strange about it. The other sellers I don't think I have any experience with. Yours truly, David S.

I really enjoyed both presentation arranged by the NBTHK. The Pete's Nobuie presentation had more of a impact in terms of what I collect as I am more of a Tosogu then a Nihonto person. The chance to handle multiple examples of Nobuie tsuba were also great. Here is a tsuba I picked up at the Tampa Japanese Sword Show. The previous owner thinks it is a Kyo-Shoami tsuba from the early Edo period. I agree with his judgement. The design is rice balls that makes up a pattern often seen on Edo period cloths and is referred to in Japanese as Shippo which translates as "seven treasures". The seven treasures reference has a Buddhist origin. Here is a link for more informaition about Shippo: http://furoshiki.com/collection/contemporary/shippo-seven-treasures-1.html Yours truly, David S.

Hi Mike, Welcome to the message board. I didn't even know kinko were made in Satsuma. Up until now I have only seen iron pieces from Satsuma in Kyushu. Really nice tsuba by the way I can't read the kanji would likely require a zoom image of the seppa-dai area. I enjoyed the Tampa show greatly. I am going back next year for sure with the addition of the NTHK shinsa. Yours truly, David Stiles

I really enjoyed myself. Thanks so much to the organizer and all of the exhibitors. Wasn't going to purchase anything as it was my first show. My will power broke down on Sunday morning and I purchased a very nice tsuba. :D I will post photographs and discussion later in the tosogu forum. Next year is a must for me with the NTHK shinsa being part of the show. Yours truly, David Stiles

I would agree. I really enjoyed the Florida Japanese Sword Show. Yours truly, David Stiles

What is a very wonderful tsuba for just two hundred dollars! Pick up many tsuba like that at such low prices then I can stop my day job and just start collecting full time. Well maybe not but I can still dream.:lol: Thanks for sharing the wonderful and low priced tsuba. Yours truly, David Stiles

I would like to point out that the crack is I think a minor point as you see many forged iron tsuba with minor cracks that don't go complete through the sukashi and don't compromise the structure of the tsuba. This has been personally confirmed by me from a tsuba I purchased from Grey late last year which is been since to be confirmed to be a Owari Sukashi tsuba from the Momoyama or ealry Edo periods. The biggest thing that makes me this this wakazashi tsuba is a cast iron copy is the iron "sekigane" in the nakago ana. This is clear evidence that a cast mold was used to make this tsuba. Thanks for sharing and for the discussion. These type of discussions help people avoid purchasing fakes. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Dirk, It might be damage from a fire. Just an idea as I haven't seen many tsuba damaged by fire but the surface and patina does look strange. Yours truly, David S.

I noticed the same thing with the upturned and finely folded rim (uchikaeshi-mimi). The in-sukashi is also complex and extensive. The overall size of the tsuba is 8.4 cm by 8.3 cm. The thickness at the center (seppa-dai) is 3.5 mm and narrows to 2.8 mm at the rim (mimi). In Tsuba An Aesthetic Study by Kazutaro Torigoye and Robert E. Hayes page 25 says that artificial use of yasurime is characteristic of Momoyama and early Edo Katchushi work. The idea that this tsuba was produced by professional tsubako working in what was once a style of non-professional tsuba makers of earlier periods still hold true even if my example tsuba is a Katchushi work. Thanks for the information it has been a very helpful learning process. Yours truly, David S.

Ludolf, I think you right that Momoyama and early Edo Period Tosho style tsuba were made by professional tsubako working in or doing a variations of what was done by non-professional swordsmith tsuba makers of earlier time periods. I know some just copied earlier works from the Nambokucho and Muramachi Periods while others used the same basic techniques to create something more original with a different aesthetic balance to it. Henry, Thanks for providing an example of a Edo utsushi (copy) of a Tosho tsuba made during the Nambokucho and Muramachi Periods. To post more photos of tsuba on a forum about tosogu here is an example I have which I and the former own thinks dates to the early Edo Period. This is primarily indicated I think by the bean shaped kozuka hitsu-ana as well as the color of patina. From my references of earlier Nambokucho and Muramachi Periods Tosho tsuba I don't remember this complex and naturalistic designs being done in in-sukashi and raiding file-marks (amida-yasuri). The techniques are associated with Edo Period Tosho style tsuba made by professional tsubako stated in Tsuba An Aesthetic Study by Kazutaro Torigoye and Robert E. Hayes page 18 but having more examples would be helpful. Yours truly, David S.