Soshin

It is a really nice Namban tsuba. Thanks for posting on the forum for discussion. Learned something new about the legend that surrounds the design. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Ian, Thanks for providing some additional information. I now agree that the design motif of my tsuba is a kamon in the shape of a gunbai. Looking a the list of variant kamon provided that all have a gunbai in them the following is a exact match to the design on my tsuba: The resolution of scan prevents me from reading the Kanji for the family associated with kamon. Ian, could you provide a higher resolution scan of just this kamon that is a exact match to the design motif on my tsuba? Since the tsuba is of a specific family kamon then this tsuba might have been a custom piece which might also explain why it was not completely signed by the tsubako who made it. Another possibly is the sada (定) Kanji character is referring not to the tsubako in case of a incomplete mei but is associated with the person who might have commission the piece. Thanks again for everyone taking the time to help me. Yours truly, David S.

Interesting idea Henry, I was not aware of the meaning of the sada 定 Kanji and its association with Buddhist Samadhi. A constant "fixed" mediative state (i.e. Samadhi) is a common objective set in a Buddhist practice. I also wasn't aware that a gunbai was associated with Hotei. What role does the man with the gunbai have in a Sumo match? Is it possible a leadership or some role with authority? Thanks for the food for thought. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Thomas C., Thanks for the nice comment. :D The design reminded me of the high ranking samurai that would be directing the ashigaru (foot soldiers) during a battle using a large Gunbai (i.e. war fan) similar to the one featured on the tsuba. I find it interesting that a single kanji character (sada) 定 is written on the seppai-dai. Is it a partial mei or does it have some other meaning? Researching the tsubako that used (sada) 定 character in their name didn't get me very far. The shape and workmanship reminds me of the early generation Echizen Kiniai school. I don't know of any members of the school using the (sada) 定 character in the mei. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Rich K., The range of years I use for the late Edo Period are 1770-1870. Historically speaking the Edo Period official ended in 1868. But it is conceivable that some tsubako continued using the same styles during the Meiji Restoration up until the Haitorei in 1876. This was the stopping of Samurai from charing daisho while walking the street. The tsuba I posted dates from the same time period as yours. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Rich K., From looking at the photo you have and the description you have provided I would confidently say that it dates from the late Edo Period. The near black color of the patina and the color of the brass would indicate this. Older brass has a very different color. I recently sold a tsuba on the forum with a very similar color which dates from the late Edo Period. The detail and composition is also fairly good for the time period from which your tsuba was made. Take care. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Everyone; Here is a write up I am doing for a tsuba in my collection. I am still unsure what school or group this tsuba belongs to if any. The idea that the tsuba in the work of a independent artisan working in the early Edo period is possible. The iron of the tsuba is good quality with fine grain tekkotsu along the mimi. The surface is smooth (migaki-ji) highlighted all over with small dots called (ji-mon). These characteristics make me think is early Edo and not late Edo in age. Here is the write up and some scans. It was purchased on the Nihonto message board sale forum back in October of last year. The earlier owner was think it was a Tosho tsuba. I didn't know Toshu style tsuba used ji-sukashi like this in their designs. All questions, comments, and additional information is welcome. Yours truly, David S.

Based upon similar tsuba in my collection and what I have seen I would say early Edo Katchushi. I really like the tsuba. :D This is all just my opinion. The ko-sukashi designs I don't think are as complex as you see in the Umetada school during the early to middle Edo. The mimi is also characteristic of Katchushi. The provided Umetada example shows this more complex ko-sukashi design I am referring to as well as the difference in the mimi. Yours truly, David S.

I would agree with John I have a few late Edo Period Nara school tsuba and the plate isn't as clean as this tsuba is. The all silver fukurin (rim cover) also indicates a later production as well as sliver was rare in Edo Period Japan. I would say that it might be a modern (i.e. Meiji Period) copy of a Nara school work. With these Nara school pieces the quality for which there is a great range is clearly determined by the soft metal inlays and the overall composition. I was reading in the most recent book by Bob Haynes that tosho ( Japanese swordsmiths) would often forge the iron plates for Edo Period Nara school tsuba. Yours truly, David S.

I think this statement also generally applies to unsigned tosogu as well. If it papers then it will increase in value how much will depend on which school and/or historical period. If doesn't paper then for tosogu the value will likely decrease. I once purchased a tsuba that was modern cast copy from someone I don't think knew that it was a cast iron copy. Once I did some research and obtained more information I found out that it was a modern (i.e. Showa Period) cast iron copy of a middle to late Edo Namban tsuba. In the end I was out around a 100 US dollars. All in all a $100 lesson learned isn't that bad. I am sure other people might have different views I am just relating my own personal experience. Yours truly, David S.

Completely agree with this statement. I think assigning a monetary value for different Nihonto related antique art (Jp. Tosogu) is beyond the scope of the this forum. I am of the opinion that this forum is more about determining authenticity and connoisseurship of Tosogu. Yours truly, David S.

Mariusz K., Thanks for the kind comments about the tsuba I picked up at the Florida Japanese Sword Show. I would consider the iron of my tsuba is a bit more homogeneous then the Ko-Shoami tsuba that Rich Turner once owned that was recently sold that you gave as another example. With that said I wound not consider my tsuba's iron completely homogeneous as there is tekkotsu and lamination folds can be observed along the sukashi opens and the out rim of the tsuba. This is why I agree with the attribution from the original owner as a early Edo Period Kyo-Shoami tsuba. I remember discussing this in another thread that the Kyo-Shoami group developed from the Ko-Shoami group after the Momoyama Period as the origin of the Ko-Shoami school was Kyoto. The "regional" Shoami school haven't develop yet in the Momoyama Period. This conclusion was developed by Bob Haynes and his teacher Dr. Torigoye. Rich's and my tsuba kind of supports this conclusion. I am sure there are others out there as well. Yours truly, David S.

I would like to think it is four inmari zushi as I really like this type of sushi but they are likely rice bales. :D Thanks Henry for better identifying the design used to compose the overall shippo design. Mariusz K., I think are correct in your analysis of the second tsuba posted by Hilik. The tekkotsu are over the top and a bit overdone. Yours truly, David S.

Mariusz K., Thanks for pointing that out as I had to double check the photos of the tsuba. The tsuba does appear to have the remains of a kinzogan inlay around the edge of the mimi. This type of inlay were very common in middle to late Edo Period Shoami school tsuba. As the quality of inlay wasn't that good to begin with they would often rub off during normal use of the tsuba. I can post some examples from my collection if anyone likes. As to the comparison of the iron and patina you can't really do that until you have the two tsuba in hand or unless you are able to take some professional quality photographs. With that said I still like the tsuba. :D Yours truly, David S.

I would generally agree with Steve's attribution as to the age and school for this tsuba (Shoami, early Edo Period). The basket weave motif is wonderful as well. For many Ko-Shoami tsuba made before the Edo Period the Kogaihitsu-ana and Kozukahitsu-ana are frequently of a non-standardized shape. The tsuba in question has fairly standard but rounded shape common to Edo Period Shoami school looking kogaihitsu-ana. Here is a Kyo-Shoami tsuba that has similar iron and patina that dates to the early Edo Period. In this tsuba the kozukahitsu-ana looks like it was added later as it cuts into the oval cravings made to highlight the rice balls (onigiri お握り) that make up the (shippo no zu 七寶の図) design. Yours truly, David S.

Steve, You are right the influence of Owari Sukashi school is only secondly at best on the later Higo school of Kamiyoshi. Sasano was pointing out the influcence of Owari Sukashi school primary on the early Hayashi Higo school. I am aware of the fact the Owari Sukashi was nearing its end by the Genroku Era of Edo Period. Thanks for the interesting and educational discussion. :D Yours truly, David S.

Posting measurements including the thickness of the tsuba would be helpful for study. Thanks. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Steve, That's likely true in regards to the correct interaction pattern of Owari Sukashi, Akasaka, and Ko-Shoami schools. But my general comment which I should have qualified better is the influence that Ko-Shoami had on the Higo schools such as Nishigaki and Hayashi. The idea of Owari Sukashi influencing Ko-Shoami and then Ko-Shoami then subsequently influencing some of the early Higo schools a interesting one. I have read in about two different books about influence of Ko-Shoami on some of the early Higo schools. Sasano in this first book classified Higo kinko schools into two different groups. The first group which had a Shoami (i.e. Ko-Shoami) influence included the Hirata and Nishigaki. The other group of schools had a Owari influence which included the Hayashi and Kamiyoshi. Keep in mind that Kamiyoshi school developed from the Hayashi school but share the same base Owari influence. Yours truly, David S.

Hi Rich K., I would agree with Grey's comments about the tsuba. The tsuba likely dates to the late Edo period. I have a number of tsuba form the late Edo and in similar overall style. With this type of tsuba the quality can easily be determined my the quality of the inlay work and the overall composition. The better tsuba of this style and time period which I would say is a mixture of Mito and Shoami schools is clearly indicated in the over all composition and the quality as well as the condition of the inlays. Many of lower quality tsuba from this time period would have damaged inlays because of the quality of the inlay to begin with was poor. In this respects I would consider your tsuba fairly average. Thank you for taking the time to post photos for discussion facilitate learning. Here is a tsuba I have from the same late Edo time period that has a much better composition in terms of the fishermen appears to be fishing into the nakago-ana (I love the use of perspective) and inlays are in a range of different soft metals which is more technically complex. (Fix a typo on my post sorry for any confusion. Wrote Mino and meant Mito.) Yours truly, David S.

I am of the opinion that early Akasaka (Ko-Akasaka) tsuba were influenced also by the Kyo-Sukashi as stated in the article as well as the Owari Sukashi school. The article quoted above has much of the same information that I remember reading in Tsuba An Aesthetic Study by Kazutaro Torigoye and Robert E. Haynes on the origins of the Akasaka school. The book also present an alternative theory that the school's origin lies in Owari Province. Thanks everyone for the interesting discussion. The only thing I do know is that all of the schools we are talking about were influenced by one of my favorite early schools the Ko-Shoami school. :D Yours truly, David S.

Thanks John B. for providing a good example and restarting this thread as I am a collector of the Umetada school. Kamon were a common design motif for the Umetada school either as sukashi or inlay and I own a good example that is done with brass inlays. Here is a link http://kodogunosekai.com/2009/12/05/umetada-sukashi-tsuba/ to a Kodogu no Sekai Blog showing a very similar tsuba to the original tsuba that started the thread. The author of the Blog Richard Turner cites as the maker of the tsuba in the Blog as Umetada Tadatsugu. Yours truly, David S.

Thierry and Fred D., I wonder what the size is for your tsuba Thierry? If it is katana size then bring the two tsuba together would make a very nice matching daisho set. :D Yours truly, David S.

Hi Fred D., I generally don't collect Higo school tsuba but I really like the Higo tsuba. The optical illusion is a cool effect I wonder if the tsubako knew this type of illusion would happen with this type of design across the surface of the tsuba? Yours truly, David S.

Dear Fred D., Thanks for the nice comment. I wasn't planning to purchase anything until my willpower broke down around Sunday morning at about 10:00 AM. :lol: Yours truly, David S.

Hi Cory, The fuchi and kashira was made by the Soten school. I can read some of the mei at it reads on the left side after turning the image counter clockwise as the orientation of the photo is completely wrong to read Japanese. Here is what I have transliterated into Roman letters: Sōheishi Sōten Sei. There is some additional information on the right side I will need to take some time to transliterate. If you post the fuchi in the translation forum I am sure there are people that can do a much quicker transliteration and translation. The tsuba was not done in a Soten school. The tsuba looks to be a product of the Late Edo Period done in a much earlier tachi style. The texture of the tsuba is interesting. If you want to know more please take a look at a tsuba I am currently selling that I think is of similar origin: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9730. I hope you find the information helpful. Yours truly, David S.