Bazza

Reading this thread I realise how little I know about Namban tsuba - but then, I'm a "blade man'!! For "SHOW AND TELL" I've put two images of my one and only Namban tsuba below. It is 83mm high x 75mm wide x 6.5mm thick. In the first NBTHK Shinsa in the USA it was given a Tokubetsu Kicho paper and noted (if my memory of 40-ish years ago serves me correctly) as 17th century. A polisher from Japan looked at it a few years ago and said "A real one!" He knew what "Namban" meant to him, but in the line of a comment above, does it relate to what Namban meant in the early Edo period?? This tsuba is particularly interesting I feel because the front is convex. The seppa dai and the dragons and scroll work are in a flat plane, but the rim containing the two dragons and scroll work is about 1mm below the flat plane, and the inside bound of the outer border beading is about 2mm below the flat. The gilt plate on the front seppai dai is loose and when removed reveals an abstract cloud pattern sunk below the flat plane by the thickness of the gilt plate, suggesting this was an original design feature? Given the erudite comments here about "the artist's intention" I am bereft of any comments and look forward to the collective opinion on this tsuba. On Chriso's question "is anyone aware of any other publications on Nanban????" I have not seen any discussion on the merits of Boxer's article in the Transactions of the Japan Society, London. The only comment I recall without reading it all again is that a beaded rim indicates an earlier piece. Anyone?? Regards, Barry Thomas.

Mark, Piers, All, I once had a sankaku yari mounted as an aikuchi tanto, the blade being only 4 or so inches long. The nakago had been cut, of course, but the mei SHIMOSAKA was still evident. Now, it is true that I have never seen another one (maybe one other??). Edo?? Whilst the yari itself was no doubt old, the aikuchi tanto koshirae I thought was perhaps Meiji although of course it could have been late Edo. It was a somewhat poor quality affair and my feeling at the time was that it was a cheap way for someone to have a defensive weapon, a tanto blade almost certainly being more expensive than a by then more-or-less useless short yari, of which I'm sure there were thousands freely available. Maybe they are "rare" in Japan because they were mostly sold as curios in the Meiji period?? Regards, Barry Thomas.

Could the pumpkin be the Chinese Bell Flower Platycodon grandiflora, aka the Japanese Bell Flower or the Balloon Flower????? Regards, Barry Thomas.

Genji Mon go back to the Heian Period http://www.viewingjapaneseprints.net/te ... imon7.html QUOTE "Genji crests (genji-mon) or Genji incense (genji-kô) were emblems associated with the 54 chapters of the Genji monogatari ("The Tale of Genji"), written by Murasaki Shikibu in the first quarter of the eleventh century" END QUOTE. Regards, Barry Thomas.

To me the style of kanji on both the subject sword and the ...Naritsugu... found by Koichi san are both WW2 Showa swords??? We wouldn't expect to find these in the Meikan - Fuller and Gregory maybe??? Regards, Barry Thomas.

G'day All, I know, I know, as if we don't have enough stuff to wade through - but - I enjoyed the discussions here with some familiar names from this esteemed forum of ours: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14957 I hope others agree. Regards, Barry Thomas.

Before I get to the business of the day (good grief, it's 12.45pm already!!), with regard to the "small horse" I recall seeing two suits of armour here in Oz that a dealer had imported from Japan. They truly looked like child's armour!! So, apart from giants such as Yoshitsune's companion Benkei, it might appear that the average samurai of the day was well-suited (pun??!!) to his horse. Regards, Barry Thomas.

Thank you all for a thoroughly interesting and absorbing thread. Re the quote above, the wording suggests Western 'smiths', but I'm pretty sure that I have seen a Japanese drawing of an artisan pulling wire through a hole in a steel plate. Can anyone else confirm this??? If I'm efficient, tomorrow (it's near midnight here in eastern Oz) I'll photograph my Yoshiro zogan tsuba and put it here. Regards, Barry Thomas.

I'm sure that an in-hand inspection would confirm the mounts to be modern copies for anyone familiar with the real thing. In this case the "kaigunto" is actually a Shingunto copy I think... Guido's report gives real cause for concern for anyone not yet "up to speed" on the real thing. Therefore for anyone reading this thread the extreme exhortation is to buy books before swords and see as many of the real thing in museums and collectors' hands before even thinking of buying a sword. Increasingly, all collecting Japanese swords seems to be costing some people is grief and money. For anyone faintly serious about collecting Nihonto as a lifelong interest, they would be infinitely better off by visiting Japan... The cost can truly be classed as "paying your dues" and may, in fact, save far more money in the future. Remember, at even a reasonable level of quality the costs are very high, let alone high quality items. Best regards, Barry Thomas.

IS THERE A MILT IN THE HOUSE?????!!!! Bazza.

I recall reading a couple of decades ago that the auction houses of Europe were full of (enthusiastically??) over-restored tsuba... Having seen a few efforts along these lines I agree with the view that you might regret it once it's done. It's not only the metal composition it's the centuries of age and patina that can't be recreated. I have an iron Yoshiro zogan tsuba with bits of brass wire inlay missing and in less than pristine condition that has an old NBTHK green paper (Tokubetsu Kicho) from the first NBTHK Shinsa in the USA - mmmmm - maybe nearly forty years ago. I haven't touched it even to clean it, because once it is done it cannot be undone. Maybe a next-generation collector will have more knowledge. The Greeks have a word for this sort of thing - hubris. I think it fits here nicely. Having said that, I am aware that there are professional (iron? Shakudo?? Shibuichi???) tsuba restorers in Japan. Anyone know anything about them??? Barry Thomas.

Thank you John and Markus. I'm not a gunto collector either, but I thought this was interesting enough to put up. I looked at the sword again today (it's not mine!) and it is indeed mounted in a samezaya. Thank you too Markus for the translation, very interesting indeed as this would suggest the sword at the time of its production was more highly thought of than we do today. Regards, Barry Thomas.

I thought those interested might like to see some painted(?) kanji on a gunto tang near the nakago jiri. I've never seen this before. I'll delete the images on Friday 8th May - please pm me if you want the images after that date. Regards, Barry Thomas aka Bazza.

On this mei under discussion - MURAMASA - no one has said what was obvious to me in an instant. Or maybe no one is so ill-mannered!! The mei looks as if it has been cut with the proverbial 4 inch nail!! I once saw a big Shinshinto katana with the mei MASATSUNE cut in pretty much the same way - crudely. A visiting Japanese collector looked at and opined that a sword smith didn't cut it, perhaps a mirror maker. Now, I just wonder (on the basis of my sample N = 2) if an enterprising person simply put niji mei (2 character signatures) on mumei swords in the Meiji period to increase saleability. The big MASATSUNE was a reasonable looking sword with a hamon and nice sugata, but with that mei one just wouldn't take a chance on it... Regards, Barry Thomas.

That's not a tsuba - it's a Chinese Dentist Colonel's belt buckle!!!! (Before anyone gets their toga in a knot I should say that Milt and I - and Rich T - go back a long way...) By the way, if you click on the Choshuya Ginza link you will see the phrase "Kawari gata" - different shape. For more on the usage of kawari see the thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4772&p=36701&hilit=kawari#p36701 In fact, in finding that thread I saw numerous others that I'll have to go and read, some associated with kantei. Barry Thomas.

I recall reading that "Appraisers" began in the Koto period, possibly 200 years before Shogun Ieyasu Tokugawa. AS far as I'm aware, the Hon'ami family were the first group to formalise merely looking after visitors' swords into repairs, polishing and then judgement. I've seen this written up somewhere and hopefully someone else can remember where!! Regards, Barry Thomas.

Koichi san, John san, Nobody san, thanks blokes. I will have to work harder... I missed the two strokes that make FUYU and I should have been able get GEI- if I'd persisted. Practice makes perfect. I'm very grateful to you both for the feedback. I've only seen one FUYUHIRO so I am not so familiar with the kanji. It's a continuing work, this Nihonto study. Best regards, Barry Thomas.

Dear All, It's embarrassing to admit I can't read all of this mei and I would be grateful for assistance or opinions. The sword belongs to a good friend who is not a Nihontophile, but does love them. I'm always happy to help him. I first read this mei off the top of my head as NOSHU JU FUJIWARA HISAHIRO. Hawley doesn't yield any Hisahiro working in Noshu, so I looked at the Kuni kanji again and it most certainly is not NO-SHU. It is one of the most poorly written mei I have ever seen and I believe it now reads ? SHU JU FUJIWARA HISA HIRO - but maybe not HIRO since there is a paucity in Hawley??? I don't have the sword in my possession and this is the only image I have. If it is inadequate I will get a better picture. http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2492/hisahiro1.jpg With thanks Barry Thomas.

Here is another sad old bugger. Started when I was 19 in my third year of work buying a shingunto from a former schoolmate. This was a year after I began to "know" (in the Biblical sense!!) red wine - another continuing affaire (I regret I have but one liver to give my country!!). I'm 65 now, and like Clive I know what the really good stuff is and as the twilight years approach I've started selling out from the bottom and polishing down from the top. The "top" is a couple of Shinto blades around the nidai Hizen Tadahiro quality level and a smattering of other blades I like through to a Gassan Sadakatsu dated 1939. It's a very serious study and historically important as art and as a symbol of samurai culture. I could be here for hours, but will close by saying that, in general looking at the plethora of dealers in "bodged up" psuedo koshirae with blades in indifferent polish with those Westerners claiming to be "polishers", Chinese copies on the internet, and the high cost of buying books and the time necessary to put into gaining first-hand knowledge, the collecting of good quality Japanese swords in good condition and correct polish has to be one of the most difficult and challenging pastimes in the world today. Some of the best people I know collect Nihonto and this list is a great aide to continual learning for even sad old buggers. We even have fun from time to time. Regards, Barry Thomas.

I think it is likely extremely rare - I don't, for example, remember reading about it in Roger Robertshaw's HIZENTO book. Or Eguchi's, or anywhere else for that matter. I certainly haven't seen it in any other Hizento I have seen in Oz, and they cover examples of shodai, nidai, and godai as well as waki-Hizento. My nidai katana in choji midare has no such "different" metal. Hopefully someone in our "catchment" of Sword Lovers can add to this??? Regards, Barry Thomas.

Here is a nice "JAL" logo tsuba that was on koshirae auctioned here last year (if I can attach it OK!!!) Regards, Barry Thomas.

Yeah, time to stick my two bob's worth in (Aussie saying) - DEFINITELY FAKE. Dreadful piece of work. Patina is all wrong etc etc etc. Barry Thomas.

Brian, This is very interesting. I have a 5-dai Tadayoshi wakizashi with "kawarigane". I was told that it isn't shintetsu, but is "different metal". Look at the first picture in the link, the left hand side image. About halfway up the blade immediately adjacent to the hamon in the ji is a strange, shiny-like patch of steel. I'm fairly sure this is the "kawari tetsu". If one puts the word "kawaru" into google there are numerous hits, the first one giving "excessive; too; very-usually of objectionable things; to err; to mistake; changeable". I think this conveys the meaning of this patch of steel very nicely, although we as collectors (especially the owner!!!) might prefer to call it simply "changeable", which is the meaning given to me by the polisher at the time... Regards, Barry Thomas.

Well, personally neither of them inspire me, but they seem "real" enough. I guess you pays your money and takes your chances, Brett!! Learning is not always about buying books, or listening to other collectors' opinions, but about buying swords and being burnt. Took me 10 years before I began to know what it was about. Some advice I gave a beginning collector recently was "All collecting Japanese swords will cost you is grief and money!!!" The first sword has a MOST interesting menuki of a figure that looks like a DATTANJIN - a Mongolian according to the web, but I have seen such figures also referred to as South Sea Islanders. It is about the third or fourth such figure I have seen. The second sword is interestingly signed tachimei. Hmmmmm. And the -HIRO character is AFAIK (As Far As I Know) the modern revised form rather than the archaic form of the Edo period. And rather crudely done. Gimei?? Probably, whatever that means for a sword of this sort. Prices?? Dunno. I'll leave that to "the Players". Both certainly need a polish and they may not be worth it. THAT requires an "in hand" inspection. Polish - another bug bear of colelctors... Best regards, Barry Thomas.

think it was Chris Bowen...remember he did alot of research along thoese lines back when he liven in Japan. Yes, Chris Bowen. I have just searched my archives and I have an 8-page document with all the emails around that time concerning much information on Kunimori. No good news, I'm afraid, but the information is there. I'll email the document to Brian to see if if it is worth putting up somewhere. Gary, if you care to pm (personal mail) me I'll send you the document direct. I have other information I'll check out too. Regards, Barry Thomas (Australia)