Matsunoki

Sorry Rayhan, I just don’t see any point in going into this level of hypothetical discussion. That statement seems to summarise your belief. I do not share that view.

How much do we have to save????…..and why?. I’m still confused. Are you talking about how long newcomers should wait before buying or how long we have to keep a sword before selling at a profit? I cannot see how quoting your own words is an attack…..you are focussing on money despite suggesting that you are not….thats OK as long as we know it’s money that is driving the debate. Your topic title asks why is there a taboo. There is no taboo. It is very simple……people do whatever they chose to do. People spend whatever they can afford on whatever takes their fancy. Who are we to judge? Rich people can spend a lot. They can also save a lot. The less well off can probably only save a small amount….how long do they wait before jumping in? In the last 3 years I have sold 60 swords mostly face to face mostly to experienced collectors! Mostly below £5k and it has brought a lot of pleasure to me as a seller and resulted in a great many very happy customers. Some I sold at a loss and couldn’t care less. Some I deliberately sold at a loss because I know the customer has financial constraints. Some I made a modest profit on. Overall I have recouped my outlay which in the current global market is a minor miracle.

“Why is saving for a sword a taboo ?” ”rush head long into a purchase and inevitably lose money on a resale ” ”Last year those Gendaito I purchased for 600 GBP or 900 GBP sold for 5K a piece in Bonhams, that is 5X in 20 years” ”Its what we see, the 2000 is crap, the 5000 is ok, then you see 10k” @Rayhan Please clarify as I am confused. All of your statements above focus on money.

You seem very focussed on money. How about the fun, enjoyment and excitement that comes with collecting? The simple pleasure of owning something(s) that brings joy even at modest financial outlays. Obviously no-one would deliberately collect intending to lose 50%…..but all markets flux and there are no guarantees at any level. Its just my opinion, but apart from a few exceptions, Nihonto are not a good candidate for positive investment returns anyway and the higher up the ladder you go the more potential for disaster no matter how experienced you are. The air is very rarified at that altitude…..very few potential customers compared to lower down. There was a big sale in the USA a while ago, I believe it was a famous and very highly regarded collection. Many lovely very expensive things remained unsold…..and thus commercially heavily damaged in the marketplace.

Irresistible…..PM sent

Anthony, amazing collection of very rare things. I’ve never even found a single one! How did you amass such a treasure trove? As for whether they are netsuke in the true sense I think it depends on what they are paired with. It would be unlikely to mount these as a netsuke with a fine lacquer inro or delicate pipe etc case for fear of damage. However I’m sure @Bugyotsujiis correct in that fine ones would have been highly prized by the wealthy possibly worn not as a netsuke but as an item suspended from a robust netsuke. Also (imo)the more basic ones would have been carried by hunters, travellers, maybe some farmers….in fact anyone who really needed to start a fire quickly and “easily”. Have you ever searched for evidence of how they were worn? Not sure where you’d start looking!

Yes it’s tricky especially as bone was often carved and stained to look like antler! Fiendishly confusing! I guess bone was cheaper and more readily available.

Hi Piers Without handling them I’d have gone for antler on the Kikusui and Bone on the Charcoal but it’s often very difficult to tell. What swung it on the charcoal?

I have owned this sumptuous wakizashi twice and each time got tempted by bigger and bigger offers when I really didn’t need to. Last seen going through Sothebys I think. Truly beautiful and extremely high quality koshirae on a mint Kanefusa hirazukuri blade. By far the most luxuriously mounted sword I’ve ever owned. In perfect condition. I still kick myself. Anyone know where it is?

Also remember that not everyone is a blade collector. Many are sword collectors ie the whole package together with untouched koshirae. Not everyone is an elitist blade hunter. If that is your “thing” - fine but don’t assume others even want to follow the same path. The sword collector most likely has a whole different set of objectives and tolerances which could easily mean accepting an unimportant blade or one in poor condition in return for some nice fittings. It has already been said above I’m sure but judging what others enjoy collecting based on your own views is irrelevant

Makes me a bit nervous🙂

Sometimes the most worthwhile lesson that we remember is one that cost us money. Also, not everyone is looking for really fine things and is perfectly happy lower down the ladder. The financial risk generally is lower at the lower tiers. A mistake can be modestly costly but higher up the ladder…..maybe a bit more nerve wracking? ….and we all have to start somewhere somehow

Two other siblings Ignorance and enthusiasm equally dangerous

Probably authentic but saya badly damaged, saya fittings missing, tsuka fittings mismatched, Ito damaged and it’s impossible to see anything in the blade. The tsuka is loose so why no image of the nakago? Do you know the seller and can trust him? Looks a bit of a wreck to me but you never know……better images??

@Jacques….. fun /fʌn/ noun enjoyment, amusement, or light-hearted pleasure.

Post images of the whole blade and separately the mounts. Also separate images of the whole nakago, both sides

Once something appears on the open market via the net it will get seen and it is the market that will decide what it’s worth. Very few pieces “fly under the radar”….instead it is a reflection of what is desirable in the prevailing market. For many many years fine quality kinko tsuba have been drastically underrated from a technical manufacturing (and sometimes artistic) perspective but now the “penny has dropped” and they are being seen as an investment opportunity. A good example of how the best of any commodity commands a premium. Add in the quirky and unusual subject matters and there seems to be no glass ceiling. Iron tsuba have a different market more influenced by papers maybe?? Not my subject so I don’t know. The buyers of fine mixed metal pieces don’t give a stuff about papers (rightly so imo)

Far too painful Piers. In any event I deleted all my netsuke images. That silver netsuke is beautiful. Don’t often find metal netsuke with lacquer pieces for the obvious reason….damage to the lacquer….but that looks like a proper match-up. Haven’t seen a ShiShi done like the one on the inro. It took me a minute to work it out. Unusual.

The mounts are very poor “basic” quality. It looks good from far but it’s far from good. However a good showy display item.

Jon, that sword is in an auction in the UK. How are you going to get it to the the USA? Have you asked the auctioneer whether they can ship it? Shipping swords in the UK is a nightmare.

I wish I could Piers but mine all scampered off. Tigers, rats, South-sea Islanders, ONI (often pursued by Shoki) and the Toads all hopped away. ☹️ They left to keep all the ivory ones company - as demanded by the buyer☹️☹️ Many vacancies exist🙂

Great subject but utterly crazy price. The super rich…..🤪

Again many charming and unusual subjects Piers.

Thanks Piers. Little lasting remnants of times gone by. Quite evocative. We had vinaigrettes and snuff boxes etc!

That’s a shame Piers because I haven’t got a clue what they are! Love the teppo.