Matsunoki

Still no facts. Just more insinuations. And everyone has an option not to buy something. Please ……facts. You do know what a fact is? …..and I am not a dealer. When the last 5 swords are gone that’s it. John, fine by me but I’m not usually one to back down when facing personal attacks and insults. Whether face to face or from a keyboard warrior. I’ll shut up and let people draw whatever conclusion they like. Bye Rayhan….be happy.

Try to stay with it mate…..I am not a dealer, simply selling my collection. In your anger to spout I think you lose track a bit. Check what I said, I didn’t say I sold them “on the cheap” STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW. TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. In other words you don’t have the slightest clue about me, what I’ve sold or anything else. You cannot offer a single fact to back up your insults and insinuations. Everything is based on your imagination and very obviously driven by an insatiable ego. You obviously have no idea how or why a market works the way it does. You are making yourself look like a total idiot. Whether you are one or not I cannot say but I could guess.

OK @Rayhan, of all the swords that I have sold please tell me which ones people should not have bought and why. Let’s stick to facts, not plastic plates or assumptions. Let’s not base our answers on the prices I sold them for because that tells us nothing. You obviously know what I’ve sold and who bought them (including many members on this Forum and the UK Token Society) so fire away.

I guess you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with you and so you continue to insult with absolutely no knowledge…..just assumptions. All you display is disrespect for perfectly genuine items collected by enthusiastic collectors who are happy with them for a variety of different reasons. If you don’t value them fine but why be so obnoxious? I must have really got under your skin which is obviously very thin. Sorry about that.

I’m not upset. You and your opinions on what everyone should do are not worth getting upset about. I’d forgotten about it all, maybe you hadn’t? let me add immature to my post above.

Showing yourself for the childish ego driven person that you are. Do you think this post will impress anyone? You just carry on insulting, it says a lot about you.

Bit like East Anglia on a good day.

Thank you Piers. Greatly appreciated. I have asked my wife to remove the cable ties from my wrists just so I can write this. They, and the gag are going back on now🙂

Piers is our netsuke man on this forum. He will see I have mentioned him above and will doubtless help you (and me!) Actually I think the one on eBay is a better carving.

@Bugyotsuji Piers is the signature man (but I do not recognise this one) and I am very suspicious of this piece. I suspect it is not what it seems although carved with some degree of “Japanese aesthetic” See this very similar but more highly finished piece that has popped up on eBay . I am suspicious of that as well. I have never seen this model of tiger before and boxwood tigers were a big part of my old collection. But of course I may be totally wrong. edit..link didnt work. Search eBay for “netsuke tiger”

@Brian My apologies Brian. Sorry to hear you are poorly. Wishing you speedy improvement and better times ahead.

This simply does not make any sense and ignores the reality of the market. In what way is it a better buy?

So, are they a better buy than a lower tier item or items? …..let’s just stick to clear straightforward answers about swords and not muddy the waters with real estate.

Ok, a simple question. All the high end swords being sold by dealers everywhere….Japan, USA….anywhere - even here on the Forum……are they all being sold at a recoupable price? Does the dealer(s) not have a substantial mark up built in? Are they a better buy than any other “lower tier” item?

Wrong, I don’t need to sell anything. I am just choosing to. Another assumption. Where did I say that? I’m not interested in £50k Kabuto or £100k suits. Another assumption. Why insult anyone? Dealers name their price. Buyers decide whether to buy or not. ….again you keep talking money and values…..it’s all about the money with you.

Wrong again. I am selling my second collection because I am developing an interest in armour and my home is full of far too much stuff. Please don’t jump to conclusions. I have let that be known in this forum. Many of my first collection went to Japanese (and UK )dealers and many highly experienced members of the Token Society many years ago. Did I need to “convince them to buy them”? Sorry but you are talking garbage with no knowledge and little forethought and now you are starting to insult not just me but anyone who is a dealer. What bit of that is difficult to understand? …and as for “the world is their oyster” get real please. PS As I have said many times , I am perfectly happy. You are the one throwing your Teddy out.

Wrong What amazing options? They own one sword….they may have bought badly I agree knowledge is necessary but only to your personal chosen level. I dislike talking money but I have been fortunate, I could buy a great many things but I simply choose not to. Therefore I do not aspire to be an expert at Kantei nor to own expensive swords for the sake of ownership. They are not “my thing” and in my experience there are a great many others who share that view. You can make snide remarks about my selling swords, but we all seem happy, many customers have returned many times. I do not make them buy anything. Is that really so darned hard to understand?

Tut tut, temper temper. what happened to being gentlemanly and a forum for open discussion? No chip on my shoulder, I just don’t agree with you and I don’t have the same views on collecting as you. Anyway….you keep talking money and I’ll keep talking enjoyment and tolerance.….and your last paragraph is utter rubbish

@Brano Brano, I agree with much that you say, knowledge is essential if you want to buy expensive things unless you are so rich it doesn’t matter. But not everyone wants to buy expensive things and many cannot buy expensive things. Thankfully this hobby can happily accommodate all levels, tastes, preferences and aspirations. However a couple of questions…. What exactly constitutes a great blade….is there a definition that everyone would agree on? Does a great blade have to be an expensive blade?…does everyone agree on that? Are all expensive blades great? Is there a difference between a great blade and a great sword? Basically what I’m saying is let people happily buy/collect whatever they want (or can) and stop trying to judge them. This whole topic started with the suggestion that “newbies” should save more (how much more.?) and wait before taking the plunge. How many of us on this forum honestly did that? Speaking personally, I’ve built two collections of swords (not just blades) the first over 40 years ago…in all well over 200 swords and 195+ have been sold to very happy people …..dealers (including Japanese) and collectors, experienced and beginners, rich and not so rich. None of these blades would probably fit your definition of “great blades”…..but neither myself nor the great many happy customers give a stuff. Many would definitely fit my definition of truly great swords. Live and let live without judgement.

Sorry Rayhan, I just don’t see any point in going into this level of hypothetical discussion. That statement seems to summarise your belief. I do not share that view.

How much do we have to save????…..and why?. I’m still confused. Are you talking about how long newcomers should wait before buying or how long we have to keep a sword before selling at a profit? I cannot see how quoting your own words is an attack…..you are focussing on money despite suggesting that you are not….thats OK as long as we know it’s money that is driving the debate. Your topic title asks why is there a taboo. There is no taboo. It is very simple……people do whatever they chose to do. People spend whatever they can afford on whatever takes their fancy. Who are we to judge? Rich people can spend a lot. They can also save a lot. The less well off can probably only save a small amount….how long do they wait before jumping in? In the last 3 years I have sold 60 swords mostly face to face mostly to experienced collectors! Mostly below £5k and it has brought a lot of pleasure to me as a seller and resulted in a great many very happy customers. Some I sold at a loss and couldn’t care less. Some I deliberately sold at a loss because I know the customer has financial constraints. Some I made a modest profit on. Overall I have recouped my outlay which in the current global market is a minor miracle.

“Why is saving for a sword a taboo ?” ”rush head long into a purchase and inevitably lose money on a resale ” ”Last year those Gendaito I purchased for 600 GBP or 900 GBP sold for 5K a piece in Bonhams, that is 5X in 20 years” ”Its what we see, the 2000 is crap, the 5000 is ok, then you see 10k” @Rayhan Please clarify as I am confused. All of your statements above focus on money.

You seem very focussed on money. How about the fun, enjoyment and excitement that comes with collecting? The simple pleasure of owning something(s) that brings joy even at modest financial outlays. Obviously no-one would deliberately collect intending to lose 50%…..but all markets flux and there are no guarantees at any level. Its just my opinion, but apart from a few exceptions, Nihonto are not a good candidate for positive investment returns anyway and the higher up the ladder you go the more potential for disaster no matter how experienced you are. The air is very rarified at that altitude…..very few potential customers compared to lower down. There was a big sale in the USA a while ago, I believe it was a famous and very highly regarded collection. Many lovely very expensive things remained unsold…..and thus commercially heavily damaged in the marketplace.

Irresistible…..PM sent

Anthony, amazing collection of very rare things. I’ve never even found a single one! How did you amass such a treasure trove? As for whether they are netsuke in the true sense I think it depends on what they are paired with. It would be unlikely to mount these as a netsuke with a fine lacquer inro or delicate pipe etc case for fear of damage. However I’m sure @Bugyotsujiis correct in that fine ones would have been highly prized by the wealthy possibly worn not as a netsuke but as an item suspended from a robust netsuke. Also (imo)the more basic ones would have been carried by hunters, travellers, maybe some farmers….in fact anyone who really needed to start a fire quickly and “easily”. Have you ever searched for evidence of how they were worn? Not sure where you’d start looking!