Matsunoki

Never seen one in 40+ years. Shape would suggest stag antler and my guess would also be whistle. Possibly a hawking whistle?

Sadly there is nothing we can do. All the major auction houses have “bean counters” deciding what to put effort into and what not to. Once upon a time it was different when specialist departments employed genuinely knowledgeable people who were allowed to do the job vaguely properly. Not so now. Minor departments (eg a Japanese Art) are either closed, moved geographically or tacked on to a wider Dept eg “Asian Art”. The potential comparatively low £return from such niche markets is an irritant to be tolerated rather than developed…..and I guess from a financial perspective (the only one that matters to them) - that’s fair enough. I don’t think anyone on here is naive enough to think that major auction houses are a complete guide to the market but then neither are top end dealers selling top end swords to rich people who don’t care what the price is and don’t know what they are actually buying. Both can cause definite distortions but both are reality……that is what is actually happening. You could argue that auction results are a better reflection of the “everyday” marketplace ie what people are prepared to actually pay for something in open competition with others.

It would be usual for the descriptions to be within a printed catalogue and in the online sale catalogue. Auctioneers rarely do description cards to display with the Lots. Did you see the catalogue?

Agreed! For any market to exist or to survive or to grow there is really only one critical factor……demand. There must be a demand for that product and that demand can vary drastically especially at different price points and in the case of swords, also geographically. So, where is the current demand for swords? Increasing, static or declining and at what price points? What current factors drive that demand?….and are they likely to change…and how, and why? Demand can be encouraged and manipulated to some extent but ultimately people must want it…….whatever “it” is. Right now the transparency that does exist in the “open market” most easily visible via auctions (and even sales on this forum) would suggest the market is over supplied, thus depressed - but as usual there are exceptions. Anything sensibly priced stands a chance, anything over valued stands little chance. Better quality sensibly priced is more likely to sell. What happens behind closed doors is anyone’s guess and is likely to remain so. As Brian has said, the internet has had a drastic impact on the sword market. It has increased product choice and visibility and has thus increased competition between dealers. It has enabled buyers to easily access far more of the “product” than ever before, but has not necessarily increased demand. Static demand coupled with over supply is bad news. Reducing demand coupled with over supply is extremely bad news for market performance. It would be great to have some dealer input…….

I don’t want an argument but this is not true when dealing with clients that are perfectly happy and well prepared to pay a premium for exclusive private buying opportunities. Also many dealers do not wish it known that they sold “sword X” to “customer Y” for “$Z” Not everyone wants exposure to the limelight. It’s the same in any high value commodity market. The art market operates in a very similar way. Imagine you are a dealer with many high net worth private clients…….the problems that could occur when your clients find out what you have sold to their rivals etc. You stand to lose your best customers. Transparency can work negatively as well as positively……it can depress a market if the “prices” start to fall - because there is no guarantee that sword prices will rise especially in this world. We have seen a few very decent collections hit the open market in the last year or two with pretty gruesome results……high percentage of unsold….likely caused by vendors expectations. And, what effects of age demographics will we see……will younger collectors be interested (or able) when these high value swords come onto an open market? Or will they prefer a new Porsche? It’s a complex set of circumstances.

Lots of impressive talk about high end rare and expensive swords but they represent only a numerically very small part of the far wider market. Are we talking about the whole market or a very small exclusive enclave? ….and do the same factors exist across the wider market? ….. and which sectors should most of us be concerned with? The UK has been awash with swords in auctions recently with very poor mixed results……with more still to come. Why is this?

All markets have to operate in the pertaining real world circumstances and the past is usually not a guide to the future…..quite the opposite in fact. So we look at our world and what do we see…..serious actual conflicts, serious potential conflicts, serious economic problems/conflicts/extremes, incompetence of governments etc etc In times such as this will Japanese swords be viewed as an economic safe haven? This is a seriously obscure small market that as said above requires years and years of learning to become even vaguely knowledgeable. Why is gold soaring? What are todays embryonic collectors likely to jump into? The past will not decide what happens, we need to look ahead, not back. Hmmmm…..

@Tyler stone ….compare yours to this genuine example of the same subject by Okatori from the Kyoto school. This one sold at Bonhams for over £6000 nine years ago. The difference in subtlety and carving quality should be apparent. I hope you did not pay a lot for these ……they are next to worthless. Were you misled by a dealer?…because I’d be happy to try and help you get your money back.

Sorry, 100% fake. I’ve been into netsuke for 40 years as dealer and collector….sad to say the market is flooded with these pieces. The hot needle test will only tell you if it’s resin, it won’t tell you anything else. Many of these fakes are carved in ivory and bone.

Tyler, sorry but this is an imitation probably made in China. Modern work. The signature is there to deceive.

Tyler, sorry to tell you that the ones in your images are not genuine netsuke…..they are all later imitations of virtually zero quality in terms of Japanese artistry and carving. Probably not even “made” in Japan.

Gold will electroplate onto silver and can also be bonded with heat I think. It is called silver gilt in jewellery and often carries silver hallmarks (in Europe etc). Mercurial gilding also works I think. It wears very quickly though and the silver can oxidise through the gilding.

Thanks for the mention @Lewis B….but….Apologies, I’ve sold my whole sword collection and will only have a few tsuba on offer plus the first emerging pieces from my gun collection. There will be a few regulars and I think a couple of other NMB members are going to have a table so should be things to enjoy and hopefully buy! @oldcodger…..come and say hello! Middle hall rear wall.

There are a couple of dodgy tsuba in this sale but most of the flashy stuff looks correct for Bakumatsu or Meiji. A few are outstanding examples of metalwork. These tsuba obviously appeal to a totally different customer base and they represent a different time in Japan. Many were made as artworks and never intended for mounting. The customer base were wealthy gaijin, merchants and the few image conscious Samurai that could afford such things. Some subjects are avidly collected now….anything Yokai, Bakemono, Oni, Monkey, Snake etc plus of course anything of the highest quality zogan. I think we will see some crazy prices. They are not likely to appeal to the purist iron tsuba collector base🙂

Forget the mei, this tsuba looks fake.

When overcleaned shakudo does look very much like copper. The blue/black patina is purely an oxide on the surface.

Simple……leave it.

The Japanese are experts in finding a quick way to create the impression of quality work especially during Meiji when the demand for their true high quality work (metalwork, tsuba, kozuka etc) boomed. Imo these are Meiji mass produced tsuba aimed squarely at the gaijin of the day (and later) who could not tell the difference. Any that are found actually mounted have most probably been mounted long after Samurai days….again to enhance the “flashiness” of a sword. We encounter exactly the same issues with other metalwork art where some short cuts quickly became so convincing that they still fool “experts”. A great example is Miyabe Atsuyoshi using shiremono pressings with clever patination to mimic true takazogan often of great apparent complexity but taking a fraction of the time. Such pieces still go through major auction houses at huge prices ……so no need to feel too bad about falling for a fake tsuba.

There is a lot of skill involved in the making of that one. Never encountered ceramic netsuke and maybe it isn’t quite 18thC Kyoto but it’s quite rare I suspect. As for a dealer putting the price up….very dishonourable! Golden rule…if you know more that the seller, keep quiet🙂

Does a magnet stick to the Menpo? ie is it iron?

When you look closely at the “gold” on two of the above examples it becomes clear that the quality of workmanship is appalling. To me it looks like modern gold plating fluid has been used with no attention to detail…..much overflow from the intended areas. The “red” areas can easily be achieved by masking and then copper plating with subsequent patination and silver can be achieved by first copper plating and then silver plating onto that. Not difficult once you know how. So, either outright clever fakes or older but terribly “reconditioned”. Either way, not “right” imo.

Some of these fakes are so good you need to handle them to determine if there is genuine mixed metal inlay or if they are very cleverly coloured and gilded. Some are very convincing including mei.

Candles have those hollow wicks so they splutter and flicker a bit?? They emit a lovely atmospheric light yes? Echos of yesterday, lovely.

Good luck! Remember the 7 P’s…….. ”proper prior planning prevents p1ss poor performance”🙂 Treasure images awaited🙂

Cancel that. I’ve amazed myself and found him. Miboku. Thanks for looking!