Matsunoki

Edward, these are still antiques. They are not fakes in the modern sense. They are tsuba made to look like much more expensive and time consuming pieces but are made using much cheaper and quicker methods and materials. They are often cast in an alloy and then use multipatination techniques to replicate the effect of true mixed metal inlays. It is very clever but means multiples of the same tsuba (sometimes with small changes) can be knocked out rapidly but look very impressive. I would guess second half of 19thC possibly into Meiji but I don’t think anyone really knows for absolute sure the exact dates or exact location of manufacture. Id hope others will chime in especially Dale.

Hi Sam, well the extra images pretty much convince me that we are talking about Nagoya mono pieces here. The alloy colour does not look like shakudo and you can now see where the mon has been soldered on rather than inlaid. I at first thought that they were cast in one piece with the tsuba but now that looks like a rough solder jobbie. Also the way the patina is wearing and it’s colour does not look “right”….difficult to explain. When in pristine condition the output from this outfit can look really very smart……but up close tells a different story. One of these I think even looks like it’s been mounted…..I have seen others actually on swords so they were definitely mounted at times. I am no expert in particular schools but I think their output is often referred to as Mino Goto style or Mino school style. The word style is the important word! ….but still just my opinion so don’t take it as gospel! Best. Colin.

I’m not looking to spoil things folks - honestly, but I suspect Mr Suzuki and his Nagoya mono workshop may have had a hand in all of these. The mon appear cast in, but not inlaid and just the way the Tagane ato are done….all very similar. If that is the case they are not shakudo but probably an alloy that can be patinated to resemble shakudo with a thin gold wash applied to the mon. Just a hunch. @Spartancrest……any views?

Yes I agree totally John but 40+ years inside the Antique trade as a dealer, restorer and collector has rather “case hardened” me to the nasty reality of it all. Just about every single category of art, antique, antiquity or any collectable is now riddled with fakery and fraud of really frightening sophistication. Pick any subject and it will have a dirty underbelly involving global brands even. There seems no room anymore for “fair play”……it’s like the wild west out there……and I share your irritation (especially as I’ve been caught heavily in the past (Chinese porcelain)).

I’m sure the Auctioneers (I’m not familiar with this one) will have their rear end well protected by “terms and conditions” ….usually shifting the onus onto the buyers to prove otherwise. But, going back to Ancient Rome, the principle of “caveat emptor” has been the over-riding guidance for any buyer of anything and it’s wise to take heed. I agree it’s nasty, all fraud is and nowadays you almost start from the premise that all is not what you hope it is. The modern world…… Words of my long gone grandfather from over 60 years ago suggest was it always thus…..”believe nothing you hear and half what your see”….and it’s got a lot worse since then. Even the major Auction Houses have horrendous skeletons they hope will never emerge from the closet.

With Sothebys, their pricing has absolutely nothing to do with any perceived “market value”. Their target market is not sword collectors. Their target market is rich investors with no knowledge who are prepared to buy whatever their Sothebys “personal shopper” tells them is “really good”

I am not 100% sure but I was told by Ford (so really I should be 100% sure!) that “old” shakudo will repatinate itself if left in the atmosphere (but kept dry). What constitutes old shakudo again I’m not sure but I would have a reasoned guess at pre-Meiji. How long it takes….no idea, never had to try it. I’d also guess it must be perfectly clean to achieve an even result. Good luck!

It’s a bat on a pomegranate.Its Japanese. It has damage (section missing on the stalk…maybe there was another leaf) Age…..probably Meiji. Not a common subject matter.

Thanks Alex. Boy we are making hard work of something blindingly obvious🙂

Here is another from the same group that I bought. It has the same heavy patina on one side and a similar vertical hanging mark This has nothing to do with a heavier patina being applied to just one side.

Sorry Chris, in this instance you are wrong. I have the benefit of handling the piece and also the others that came with it. All had similar heavy discolouration to one side.

Jean, this is definitely not anything to do with shibuichi or shakudo. It is definitely sentoku ie a brass type alloy and that definitely does develop an oxidised patina depending on what it is exposed to. I’ve handled a fair bit of Japanese mixed metalwork and its restoration. The re-patination of overcleaned pieces basically restores a fine layer of oxides on all/any alloys - the final colour of which will vary depending on the actual balance of constituent metals used and the chemicals used in the process. That is what gives the often stunning multicoloured effect found on these pieces. Gold however does not oxidise (I think!) On this tsuba, if you look closely on the front side you can see a very fine line that goes from the nakago ana vertically to the rim. That strongly suggests it has been hung up to display using a fine wire or thread. Thus the face will have been totally exposed to whatever whilst the reverse will have been protected. I first bought this tsuba together with a few other really good Kinko pieces all of which had the same vertical line. I suspect that some of the colouration could also be nicotine…..maybe on the wall in a “gentleman’s study” type environment.

Equally amazing how some people get “taken in”.

Sutton Hoo is not a Viking. It is Anglo Saxon ie the civilisation that developed when the Romans cleared off it and predates the arrival of the Vikings by a few centuries. We are learning much more about them with further archeological discoveries and turns out they had the pattern welding knowledge and ability…..probably brought over by the colonists from Germany, the Netherlands etc (ie the “Saxons”). And probably merged with the forging technologies that the Romans undoubtedly left behind. The early dark ages aren’t quite as dark as we thought.

Your spidey-sense tingling as well?

Well, stepping out of anonymity…… and just the opinions of an old fart etc etc Personally I think porn that veers towards beastiality is pretty damned sick. Calling someone Adolf Hitler displays a remarkable lack of awareness of the difference between a delusional mass murderer and someone trying to moderate a serious forum in a way that is acceptable to most without causing too much offence. Some will always throws toys outa the pram but hey Ho. Images of large cushions shaped as phallus are what I think the little schoolgirls are laughing at on their phones when I drive past them on the way to the gym. Last time l looked in the mirror I wasn’t an arsehole but I have got one and I try not to talk out of it (yes, failing at times I know) Just sayin. Downvote or further insults awaited.

Don’t think so.

Putting each sword on a different thread would have made it much easier!!….especially for someone like me who gets confused easily🙂 Maybe next time. Happy hunting.

Another thread on here has been talking about brass type alloys and their appearance/patina. That discussion reminded me of this tsuba that has returned to me having had a short holiday elsewhere🙂 One side has been exposed to the light/atmosphere, the other side shrouded. It looks like it was hung via a very thin thread rather than boxed. The difference is quite spectacular, you would not believe they are sides of the same tsuba made from the same alloy. Anyone beat that for a stark contrast?

That looks Anglo Saxon replica??? Sutton Hoo?

This way up….

Chinese fake. Sorry.

I doubt any image will tell you what it is. The Japanese used a huge number of different alloys often personalised by the artist making small adjustments to one of the many standard formulas. I also doubt this tsuba is plated…why bother? Much simpler to make it out of a homogeneous alloy. I don’t think this shakudo…..that is usually much more of a noticeable copper colour. I’d settle for a sentoku alloy of some type ie a variety of what we generically call bronze. The only way to be sure is to take it to someone with an XRF analyser.

You got the images the wrong way up………..