reinhard

mei on a yari reinhard

According to Iimura's ShinTo Meikan there was a TADAMITSU working in Hizen during Kambun-era, but I agree with Paul: Nakago and mei are looking bad and unlike Hizen-style. reinhard

No, it's not. Jacques gave you the hint, but you wouldn't listen: KAGEMITSU never signed his blades on tachi-ura. Your "bargain" is just a waste of money. You might learn something about very poor gimei though. reinhard

I don't have an agenda. I'm watching and laughing from a distance by now. You are trying to put me in the elitist cache for reasons I can only guess, but you are wrong. How to oil a NihonTo properly is not an advanced subject, but some outrageous advice has been given in the past (probably by militaria collectors still guessing if the yakiba on their ShinGunTo is oil-quenched or traditionally hardened). You are right: It's not rocket science. But it isn't anything goes either when it comes to genuine NihonTo. Helping beginners (with non-commercial intentions) is about the only thing I have ever cared about on NMB, for advanced discussions are not taking place on public fora anyway and I have stopped searching for them years ago. It is your job to protect beginners from sharks, vultures and silly advice. Can you? Almost everything beginners need to know can be found in two or three good books. They will cost them a small fracture of the amount of money some of them are willing to spend on ugly junk they find in the bay or elsewhere and these books can be delivered almost all over the world. What do you do with people acting against all friendly advice? Exactly. You give them comfort and solace, discussing their mistreated katana-like objects at length on the basis of a few bad pics. reinhard

This came to my mind as well, but then: There are different answers to the same questions in different threads. Some of these answers, though utterly wrong, have never been contradicted yet. - Who's going to supervise the self-declared "experts" and their "universal and final advice" on NMB? With all due respect, NMB's collective knowledge is far from being capable of establishing reliable guidelines and this is not necessary either. Most of what beginners must know has been written down before and/or can be found on decent sites. If someone's not willing to spend a minimal amount of money on a few good books and time to read them, he should be left by himself (and the bay) and learn it the hard way. These books and sites should be recommended, but this is where problems already start: Some of us are recommending certain books and others are contradicting. - Even if we were able to agree on reliable sources of information (which we are obviously not) differences of interpreting them will remain. Establishing a lighthouse, containing the "collected wisdom" of NMB, would just lead to more confusion and to a false feeling of safety for newbies. Better leave it as it is and try to hire the best mods you can get. reinhard

It's MASAHIRO actually, but it doesn't really matter anymore. reinhard

It says: Showa meibutsu (as in: "meibutsucho") Whatever that's supposed to mean here. reinhard

"Gorin" is not a name but part of the measurement. Rin is the tenth part of bu and "go rin" therefore meaning: "five rin" (in length). I've never heard of a Japanese family punished with a name like that. reinhard

There may be one or two ways of squeezing some kind of sense out of this "mei", but that's not the point. A poorly executed and unprecedented "signature" like this, mumbling of family treasure, wholehearted strength (and so on) on a messed-up sword like this should leave you with only one conclusion: A person unfamiliar with the history and tradition of NihonTo tried to increase the value of a sorry blade by adding some pseudo-importance to it. Unfortunately a poor fraud like this seems to be still working. Be warned, my little Hobbit-friends. Deceptions of a much more clever kind are waiting for you and your purse out there. reinhard

Voila. It wasn't that difficult, was it. reinhard

Jean, Shyly I dare to compete with Morita-san's skills. My version of the wakizashi-mei would be: - isshin (as in Koa Isshin), meaning: "wholeheartedly, with all the strength of my heart" - chikara, meaning: strength, power (just in case you haven't noticed yet) - the fourth character is tricky to translate, for I haven't seen it on mei yet. I'll call it "Wilson", because it reminds me of the volley-ball in the movie "cast-away" (with Tom Hanks) after things started growing out of it. - Yu, meaning: "male, brave, great" meaning/translation therefore is: "wholeheartedly strength (Wilson) brave" I'm sure Stephen wants to check the delicate habaki-moto area in hand in order to evaluate the straight transition-line between polished area and nakago. The shape of the blade reminds me of late Heian/early Kamakura-period examples, where the blade is tapering abruptly towards the point and curvature seems to "bow" towards the top. Good reason to check it carefully; not to forget the excellent carving of the mei. Sorry, forgot to take my meds against sarcasm. reinhard

Remnants of a mei are visible on the sashi-omote of the blade. Telling by the pics is difficult. reinhard

According to Mr.Robinson's inventory of the Baur-collection there was an unrecorded fitting-maker by the name of Yokoya TERUYUKI working in Edo during 19th century. Signature and especially Kao look quite different though. reinhard

It was a mozo (imitation) blade he received (see pic). Obviously for good reasons. But that's not what it is all about. Handling a katana in public in Japan is different from doing so in the rest of the world; no matter what kind or quality it is. To most Japanese people every katana is like a loaded gun. It has to be treated with utmost respect and it's better to stay away from it. This attitude might also explain the reaction of the Japanese ambassador described by Mr.Skebo. - BTW, the ceremony started according to protocol. reinhard

Thomas, We probably agree in most points except for it's being a bakumatsu-period work. Overall quality of this koshirae is just not up to minimal standards of that time. Even objects for everyday use were made more carefully during Tokugawa-period; not to speak of samurai's most valuable possession. - Anyway, I didn't mean to "argue". I'm sorry if my replies were understood as a kind of "argument". This particular tsuba is not worth it. reinhard

Things haven't changed much in the meantime. Nobody told Tiger about etiquette or protocol when he was presented with a NihonTo in 1997 in Japan. reinhard

There seems to be some confusion here: Brian, you said: "...the old iron once could have had a sentimental value....maybe passed down through the family." My interpretation of this statement was (is) like this: Parts of the koshirae were built in order to preserve this tsuba incorporating family history, sentimental values or the like. Thomas, can we agree to this: seppa are the small plates adjacent to fuchi and habaki respectively. Plates covering large areas of the tsuba in between are to be named/mentioned separately in order to prevent confusion. Apart from this, trying to return to the tsuba in question and wondering myself what I'm doing here anyway, I'd like to state: This kind of koshirae (including the treatment of the tsuba) does not suit basic principles of workmanship predating Meiji-period. In fact, the whole assembly looks like so many pieces I've seen, dating from Taisho and early Showa-period: low class objects assembled in a careless way. Some of them "modified" even later. There have been many misunderstandings and misinterpretations on NMB as far as koshirae are concerned. In order to get a review and to argue on common ground, I strongly recommend this book (including Meiji-period koshirae) for a starter: reinhard

Thomas, it is definitely not a seppa. It could be the soft-metal plate covering the back-side of the tsuba, but then: why putting it there while taking this picture and why is it of exactly the same color and structure like the seki-gane? Maybe this is just a rare coincidence, but even if it is: adding all features and considering the very poor workmanship of most parts of this koshirae, the idea of this tsuba being an improved heirloom is quite far-fetched to say it politely. I can't imagine you are you considering this, are you? reinhard edit: Lee may be right. I was still writing while he had posted already. Nevertheless I can't see any evidence for this "enriched" tsuba being a treasured heirloom. Overall quality of all parts is just too bad. reinhard

I forgot: What about this very poor photo-shop job, adding a seki-gane where there is none? (see the part within the frame and compare it with other examples from the same post). - Oh, and by the way, the tsuka-ito looks quite new and was wrapped by an amateur. Diamond-shapes are beyond Japanese professionalism. reinhard two days from now tomorrow will be history...? Are there some more cookies?

Using the same peculiar cherry-blossom punch for seki-gane and seppa is.....peculiar. Furthermore there seem to be traces of black paint on the seppa. Rokusho (chemical agent used for turning shakudo's natural color into black) does not leave traces like these on copper when handled professionally. reinhard just one day from now my talk of today will be the talk of yesterday...or something like that. I can't remember precisely, but the Chinese fortune cookie tasted great.

It seems you have made up your mind a long time ago. Maybe too long ago. The initial purpose of this thread was: Many attempts have been been made in the past in order to explain, analyze, evaluate mutual efforts between Japanese and Western culture and aesthetics. Many studies exist as far as fine arts are concerned, but decorative arts were neglected to a major extent. A lot of work and research has been done in order to explain and to illustrate differences and principles of Japanese works of art from yamato-e to ukiyo-e and their influence on Western arts, as well as the influence of Renaissance paintings, Dutch masters and pre-Raffaelites on Japanese aesthetics. - Since there has always been a strong link between painting and tsuba, establishing a connection is legitimate, but only to some extent. At least it is a first track, although it took us quite some time and some unnecessary quarrel to get there. My question was ( and I mean "was"): Were there basic principles in tsuba-making before late Edo/Meiji-period, comparable to those recognized in studies made on paintings and drawings. Can we name them, establish them in any way...or not? Say no and it's okay for me and I'll go on researching by myself. Great changes in Japanese aesthetics took place shortly after Meiji restauration. Are we able to build a system of understanding and categorizing them as far as tsuba are concerned, similar to the categories already established for painting, drawing...or not? Don't expect any answers from me. It just came to my mind it might be interesting to talk about it, exchanging ideas and infos. By doing so the term of Hama-mono might have been clarified a little bit. If it's "bla bla bla" to some and "nothing new" to others, we better leave it at that. Good night. reinhard

Thank you very much, John, for your great effort. Serving us this essay is much more than I expected. Namban-e in later 16th c. and the arrival of rangaku (Dutch sciences, i.e. medicine, anatomy, astronomy, maths, physics, botany) during 18th c. did affect Japanese artists to a lesser degree. They copied copperplate engravings from science books, but these scientific illustrations did not made a major impact on Japanese aesthetics. During Tokugawa-period Rimpa-school and, to a lesser extent, Kano-school of painting, impregnated all areas of art. Central perspective was still not in use and therefore other ways had to be found in order to emphasize the meaning and importance of particular objects within a given frame. Partition of spaces, size of objects (disregarding perspective) colors, (ground-)material, separating lines were most important when working without the 3D-effect of central perspective. After definite "arrival of the West" and the introduction of new techniques in Japan during second half of 19th c., these particular "2D-techinques" vanished in painting as well as in tsuba. - Italian painter Antonio Fontanesi from Torino was one of the most influencial teachers at the Engineering College Art School, founded in 1876, teaching there from 1876-1878. He, along with others, lead Japanese decorative and fine arts into a new era. One may regret this or not. This is not what I'm interested in. I would still like to stick to tsuba, for this is Nihonto message board. What can be considered important in works of Edo-period art is the neglect of individuality in human faces. They look mostly uniform to some degree. There is a fundamental difference between Western and Japanese art as far as the individuality of the human being is concerned. Does this change of perception manifest on tsuba made during Meiji-period as well? Not answering questions like these, but collecting new ideas was my intention. If it's "bla bla" to some, who cares. Thanks again, John. BTW, this is the famous painting by Takahashi YUICHI mentioned in the essay. reinhard

I didn't mean to interfere with your discussion of KANESADA's mei, but it is wasted on a nakago like this. One can save a lot of time and energy starting with the more obvious and simpler facts instead of going straight into subtle details. - It is the same with blades. It's better to start with looking at the sugata instead of searching for utsuri. reinhard

John, you are correct as far as my preferences are concerned, but my particular favouritism is not supposed to be the measure for anything. I am considering myself capable of seeing beyond my own personal preferences. My perception therefore might not be as particular as you may think. reinhard

Dear Jacques and Eric. Before going into the matter of shodai and nidai "Echigo no Kami KANESADA" and subtle details of mei, you should consider absurdities like this: ....nen hachi gatsu gatsu (!!??!!) Now, what is this supposed to mean in connection with an almost illegible, deliberately deformed and deteriorated nengo? Was KANESADA stammering while chiselling the nengo? - Any bells ringing? reinhard