Baba Yaga

I can guarantee a shorten blade super, or otherwise without mei and not Juyo would go in the none- graded ben. No attribution, no age, no Hozon, no nothing. For "some reason" the American market has been flooded with them. If collectors don't understand the reasoning behind the game look too reason #1 and the title of this thread.

Know the person? I know A LOT of people and I know not to deal with them. Let me simply explain "dealing" and what I call "Bad Behavior" in specific collecting venues . Many moons ago enhanced embellished language / information was used, kind of like chumming for fish. That embellished language / information wasn't challenged, so more started to using it. Then more and more and more. Not only was it used, it was / is amplified. I'm not speaking about the china crap, I'm talking main stream Nihonto. Does it work from the bottom up, the top down, or both. Well it's both! Most collectors don't see the red flags, because they don't understand the game, and it is a game. A Big part of the Art game is blind emotion and the Art of lost information .

Back to the thread Are organizations obsolete? I see people are confused on the word obsolete and why the LOW numbers of collectors. Ask yourself why has TV I advise collectors to watch the documentary "Sour Grapes". It's about a grifter everyone loved and trusted in the high end collecting of the wine industry. After Rudy got busted and sentenced there are still a large portion of the collecting community who still think the bunk wine they bought for extremely high prices are real. After years and years the collecting wine industry is still suffering as Rudys crap goes to actions. It's free on Tubi BTW. In the documentary Kosh the multibillionaire makes a snide comment to collecting Samurai Swords. Someone LOL taught him about Nihonto too!

First and for most there is multiple red flags go up once you reach a level Nihonto collecting. I red flag this person for totally ripping people off in the Nihonto community. Before I came down on him, several of us tried to reason with him. That didn't work so well. The majority of collectors thought this person was a great guy. however grifters appear to be great guys. It took years for the community to catch up with his Tomfoolery. The guy ended up offing himself, or someone did it for him. This person sold problematic Nihonto for another person who is still looked at as a pillar of the Nihonto community. Most people like myself and a boat load of people who have left and some who still are except this grifting. This is only a small example, I could go on and on and on. Accept this behavior, look the other way and everything is fine. Except for the fact this hobby hasn't gone anywhere and people wonder why. I don't see why a thread that has 5.3k views should be locked unless you're a dictator.

"3. Officially and visibly widen the current Token mission statement to include Gendai and Shinsakuto. Maybe even military swords. The interest is huge in these fields and I do not understand the need to specifically focus on antiques swords. Whether we like it or not that does still sound a bit elitist?" A lot of Tomfoolery going on! All of what has been said, has been said over decades. Like it, or not, this is a commerce hobby filled with grifting and misinformation. That's the BIGGEST hurdle, like it, or not. If your life is consumed by a hobby, you're either a professional hobbyist of said hobby, or something else. Tosogu, Gendai and Shinsakuto are already half the posts on this forum. That should tell everyone where this has been headed. If collectors want to clean it up, then clean it up. Stop playing I have a better idea, it's a broken record. Learn how the game is played, or lose. The reason the numbers aren't there are because of the game LOL.

It's not like this hasn't happen in the Japanese Nihonto community some years ago. Read the tea leaf, history repeats itself.

You may want to think about Grifting going on in the "Commerce" Japanese Art World. The Commerce of Grifting in the Art World in General is unbelievably high. Extremely vague information, self appointed experts, TOKUBETSU HOZON - "Extraordinarily Worthy of Preservation" trading for $7-10K. Ever wonder why the number collectors and organization number are so small. Ever wonder why so many collectors drop*out after a measured academic level? I can go on and on in depth, but a large number of people live to be taken for a ride. It's especially prevalent in a multitude of venues. People aren't morons for not figuring it out, just gullible.

Oh, Alex knows he's being cheated, or he's speaking from a place of pompous ignorance. Both can be interrelated. It may be a geographical / geopolitical state of consciousness? I'm not exactly sure, but it appears ramped in a group think atmosphere.

I agree on those 3 subject lines. I stay away from forum Kantei for many reasons, none contributing to my own skill set. I've seen people say more than once, various fittings were Chinese, but they were just Japanese Military junk. And I don't study Japanese Military swords. And you're right, few swords are reasonable, but most fall under the category of not. People have an inherent need for "right now" gratifying and treasure collecting. The let down usually leads to the argumentative and the "I'll keep digging my own whole deeper." I don't know if you were around back in the days when NBTHK Shina Kantei wasn't laxed. Too make matters even more complicated as you say, "this is not rocket science" . MANY good sword smiths copied each other to the extent of perfection. Some will say Bungo and others did a great job at it. This may not be rocket science, but the difficulty is very academic.

Your premise was is, "I dont think you need the experience of looking at 1000,s of blades in hand to work out what a particular sword is, and is that not the point ?" That isn't looking at the same blade, or the same sword 1000 times. It's looking at 1000 different swords of size, shape, weight, polish and quality. I would expect and expert *Master too reference material if they believe they're 80% correct. That shows me they are absence of ego. With that said, the majority of papered "attributions" are 100+ years off. My beef with the NBTHK *Masters is they take 1-3 minutes max to inspect the majority of swords. That time figure came from 3rd grade math! That time figure tells me they aren't using the book much.

The NBTHK will definitely disagree with that statement,. The internet keyboard jockey isn't a substitute for "real life experiences".

The question ??? is, Are organizations obsolete. If any organization, or business is not moving noticeably forward it has become complacent and obsolete. I would say since 1993, yes they, or it, has become obsolete. Tech has advanced, but it's the same old, same old.

That may sound hilarious, but it's true. I have a friends great uncle who was busted for grave robbing locally. Our DA just busted a ring of local coroners who have been robbing the dead for the last 30 years. The whole coroners office was in on it.

As my advise given on this very forum months ago, America has announced today that we are in the worst recession in the last 40 years and the plummet down has just started. Savvy Business people make more money in poor markets. This is the market in which I operate. Sounds coarse, but emotions is a business killer.

No disrespect meant, but "dealers" operate in a resale market. Buy very low and sell very high.

Yep, you are correct. 3 of the old time collectors I learned from have since past. 90% of the collectors at the SF sword show 30 years ago were gray haired pot belly gents. I found these people via dialed up interweb with 1mb storage. I took my son to the SF sword show when he was 7, now he's a well known attorney in CA. He's been to Japan a few times, so he knows what's what and what everything is worth via my estate. I collect a lot more than just Nihonto. If one has a substantial collection, everything should be listed on an insurance ridder. Dealers are the last choice unless it's a fire sale and everyone knows what that means, Last note, if you get divorced, she gets half of everything. LOL

Yep, poor young people. ! Add on student loans and inflation, not being able to buy a home, health insurance costs, dental costs, auto payments, auto insurance, energy costs, etc.

It's "always a negative" I'd change that statement to sometimes and depends. Always is falsely.

What to do? If you're a Tsuba collector, you keep them. If you're a sword collector, you sell and buy a sword. If you're neither, pay for the car insurance and put some gas in it. I bought a Breyer horse for $15 and sold it in a week for $2500, I don't collect Breyer horses, but I knew what they were worth.

I did the NRA sponsored certification Gun, Knife and Automobile "defensive" tactical classes. I guess they had to call it "defensive" but it seemed offensive to me. LOL The Knife fighting class was anything but martial arts to my surprise. I don't believe the NRA offers this anymore, it was 3 days.

Remember patients is a virtue and the next sword will always be there. The more time you spend looking, the more you will learn.

If someone wants to geek-out this is interesting https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0925838812016283?via%3Dihub

"This was published in March of 2006" That's about the time Japans economy started to tank and Shinsa standards became laxed. Is their a correlation, I don't know.

I never seen that long sword sport before, most interesting.

Yes, but.... The reasons aren't that simple and not good. The very high end will drop a little while middle and low will drop like a rock. If it doesn't, I still will keep my powder dry until it does.