Jon

Matt Thankyou so much for this, I will add this to my research file. You’re all providing some brilliant information on this school.

cheers for that entry, guided me to have a look on getting Seskos book, Amazon have a deal…hardback for £46.00 including delivery soft back is only £35…more books to read.

cheers Michael, it looks there is an error in the data base I was using at it stated the 3rd generation was Jo Saku, it was confusing me ( as I understood he was not in any way comparable to the first Yoshimasa, and this is why I was asking the question as the data therefore seems to have an error and I don’t have access to the seminal books on smith grades. Also the data base was not tying up with the information I was reading, kokan Nagayama (1995 translated 1997) clearly stated the best smith in the school was the first generation Yoshimasa, who was the the son of Nobukuni Yoshisada ( the founder of the school). But the data base below was not clear on that. So really my question is on the seaming inconsistencies. Im starting to get that especially with these ratings they are profoundly contextual, which is the fun of starting to study something which is based around both and art and science. again cheers.

Interestingly from what I can read the first generation Yoshimasa was the best of the Tusukushi Nubukuni so I may have to see if I can find one of this smiths swords to look at.

Hi matt Thanks for the response and great pictures, they are two nice blades, lovely I’m glade to see there is some enthusiasm for Chikuzen Nobukuni Yoshimasa. Im a new collector and it’s the first blade I have purchased ( I have another blade ( koto) I inherited, that’s is out for Polish and a Shirasaya). But the blade I’ve just purchased is papered as Hozon Yoshimasa (3rd) chikuzen ju minamoto Nobukuni Katana Length/Type: 70.2cm Shinogi-zukuri Blade Width at: Machi 2.8cm Yokote 1.75cm Kasane: 0.7cm Sori: 1.4cm Tori Kissaki: Chu-kissaki Mune: Lori Nakago Length: 25.2cm Mekugi ana: Two Nakago: Suriage Nakago Shape: Futsu Nakago-jiri: Inyama Yasurime: (omote) Kiri (ura) Katte Mei: Katana-mei Chikuzen ju Minamoto Nobukuni Heishiro Yoshimasa Hamon: Suguha Boshi: Ko-maru sagari I should get it next week so only have dealers pictures at present, cannot wait to get it in hand. Once I have it I will take some better pictures and upload them.

I’m presently looking at all the information I can find on the the smith Minamoto Nobukuni Heishiro Yoshimasa ( 3rd generation Yoshimasa) What I know so far: He is the third generation Yoshimasa from the Tusukushi Nubukuni school ( Chikuzen province), school founder was Yoshisada keicho ( 1st generation Yoshisada), with the first generation Yoshimasa being his son. Yoshimasa 3 made swords in the around Jokyo era ( 1684 to 1688) in the Chikuzen province. rating wise I believe he was rated by Fujishiro as Jo Saku, his Toko Taikan rating was ¥3M ( on page 747) and his Hawley rating was 40 ( ref YOS363). Now the ratings confuse me a bit as I understand it a hawley rating of 40 is pretty average work at best, the same with the Toko Taikan rating of ¥3M…so the Fujishiro rating of Jo Saku seems higher than the others ( I may be wrong). if anyone else has any views on this smith, his rating, school, links to on line articles or actual examples of his work to show I would be great full. Jonathan

Hi George, interestedly the auction houses are still bound by consumer protection act (distance selling regulations) 2000. They may put in their terms and conditions about only advisory ra ra ra..but in law if it’s distance selling and is not as expected you can ask for a refund. I did get an auction TANTO that was described as a Shinto blade, when I got it the tang had been blackened and it was a Chinese knock off. I emailed said it was not as described and asked for a refund under the consumer protection act (distance selling regulations) 2000. If that does not work, if you made your purchase by credit card and it was purchased at a distance and is not as described, you can ask for a refund from the credit card…they will make a claim against the auction house.

Hi Jean, I was being a bit flippant and using the word DAISHO as related to pre 16century usage when it was any long and short blade combination…

Well if you look on the bright side you’ve just purchased a daisho.

It really all depends if you are looking to make money….if you’re just after polishing the blade to aid study as well as help preserve a blade…then it’s worth it to you. If you got the blade for nothing it’s unlikely you will be in for a serious loss…and you will have the satisfaction of being the person that keep the blade going.

For all those interested in price it was £2000, including delivery ( and I get 3% cash back on the credit card..so £1940).

I have been wondering about this….when I had an out of Polish blade I used Uchiko to clean of the old oil as part of 3 monthly maintenance…But now my blade is being polished I was in two minds about using it…as advice seems to be mixed.

I like the koshirae on the longer blade, it seams to have a reasonable polish. Not bad for £900….looking at what has gone through the UK auctions is year ( I’ve been checking them all out) not an inappropriate price and better than some I have seen go through. Jon

Well I’ve now purchased my second second sword ( the first was inherited and is off being polished). The blade is in full Polish with NBTHK Hozon paper. Date: 1684-1704 School: Tsukushi Nobukuni Period:Jokyō (1684-1688) Genroku (1688-1704) Province: Chikuzen Smith is: Yoshimasa (3rd gen) Chikuzen ju Minamoto Nobukuni Heishiro Yoshimasa References: Hawley YOS363, rated 40 points. Toko Taikan page 747, rated ¥3M. Thanks for all the help on this.I will send post some more pictures when it arrives.

In the end I went for the Yoshimasa blade, got it for £2000, which I think is pretty good for a papered blade in good Polish….I was looking at what was coming out of the auctions at present and people were paying £1000. + 25% fees for damaged blades out of Polish…and what I really want is a reasonable blade I can fully study and understand.

Pictures of the Yoshimasa blade

The Morokage blade pictures

Pictures of the takada wakizashi

Cheers all Price wise: the Morokage blade is $3600 dollars ( £2900) the Yoshimasa blade is $3150 dollars (£2500) and the takada is $2400 dollars These seem reasonable as all the blades are in a good polish, what do others think ?

The last one is a sword and papers easier and I sort of am happy with it as it’s an NBTHK Hozon paper…it would be good to understand thoughts on the value of a blade with these papers ( again it’s in full polish and lovely). The blade is : Wakizashi by Taira Takada Edo Period my budget only runs to one of these so it needs to be the right one at the right price.

The next sword and papers is a bit easier and I sort of am happy with it as it’s an NBTHK Hozon paper…it would be good to understand thoughts on the value of a blade with these papers ( again it’s in full polish and lovely). The blade is :Date: 1684-1704 School: Tsukushi Nobukuni Period:Jokyō (1684-1688) Genroku (1688-1704) Province: Chikuzen Smith is: Yoshimasa (3rd gen) Chikuzen ju Minamoto Nobukuni Heishiro Yoshimasa References: Hawley YOS363, rated 40 points. Toko Taikan page 747, rated ¥3M.

I’m thinking about investing in a papered blade in full Polish. Now I’m looking at three blades. They are all in perfect Polish and are papered, the first is attributed to Morokage Bizen, Papers are Tokinoh kanteisho blade is early Muromachi. But I’m struggling a bit with the papers it has as I cannot find a reference on line for how meaningful these papers are so help would be appreciated on the level of value of a sword with these papers ( the blade itself is very lovely) Description Attributed to Morokage, Bizen, papers Tokinoh Kanteisho. Heisei 13 period 15th century Koto early Muromachi era, length 62.8cm, Sugar Hon zukuri, Lori mine, Kitae, Ko – itame had, Hamon Ko – gnome, Ko – midare, Boshi Chu – Kissaki

To be honest I’m sort of giving up on the idea of bargains from the auctions and thinking about putting a few thousand down on a papered blade in full Polish. Just have to pursued my wife…that it’s a good investment…unfortunately I have many many collections shoved in random strong boxes and vaults…..I just love collecting….as she said to me…why are all our savings in shiny things……and not shares and savings accounts…my answer was shares and savings are boring….

Yes I was so upset, I was all ready to bid, and got called away for work..then Found out the swords I wanted had no bids…I’ve not been able to negotiate a sale, it looks like the vendor decided to not sell them…disappointed.

Cheers guys, for myself in not looking for perfection, I’m looking for something I can study the basics on and then get restored…study some more…if I break even after costs of polishing I would be happy….i already have one wreck of a sword I’ve sent of to the polisher ( after I got it a nice Shirasaya made)…so for me collect study…rescue study a bit more and be happy.