shan

Hi Nick, Its a nice blade and i would have it as well but for the mounts mostly as i can see very little of the blade and nore can anyone else. As i stated based on the mei examples and the immediate assumption that this was a missing "national treasure" it clearly is not,Yes it may still be nice and may well be from another smith with the same name but no-one has offered up a comparison mei that will collabourate this as of yet. Maybe not gimei then (god knows how fast that attribution can be made based on poor or similar kanji) but not from the period or smith that all thought it was from at first for sure. I have to say that this whole post leaves me feeling slightly uninformed,the images are "tempters" and the descriptions and reasons don`t sit comfortably with me. "If you want the $1000 items you have to have this priceless sword as well or no deal" would not an executor of an estate generally reaserch the items first to get a rough value, without the need to force this clearly good item onto some hapless buyer who only wanted the coffee maker and tea set? Its been a bit wierd from the start really but maybe thats just me and these things do happen in the USA. I know that anyone disposing of an estate in the UK would at the very least get the best price possible for any item that was left ,not just force it on sombody to make a deal. Maybe i am a fool (undoubtedly) so sorry, but this just makes me think that its a con of some sort or just a wind up for the forum. Its just another national treasure thats turned up in someones trash can and i don`t think thats really how it happens. sorry shan

Hello , Points taken and With all due respect, I agree, I am no expert either and the blade should be checked, but I know what I see and the five samples of mei although different to some degree show similar characteristics and are likely done at different stages in the smiths life. I have been told before that the mei of a 30 year old smith May/will have acceptable differences with the mei of the 70 year old smith and this makes very good sense. The posted mei shows none of the common characteristics of the smiths mei, bar one,the name of the smith is the same. I would love to be proved wrong for the original poster of this question but its not looking good based on those comparisons. It is the blade that will ultimately determine the smith even if the mei is not genuine and although the mei is in question the blade may not be. However we see nothing of the blade so everything is based on what we can see. Its an unfair position to be in , when trying to determine authenticity so we must rely on information supplied and an analytical approach. The mei I see in the 5 samples sadly bears little or no resemblance to the mei posted by the rather cryptic and reticent new member who’s name I still do not know. The sword image just posted by Jacques further enhances my opinion as it is a "dead ringer for at least 2 of the 5 Sample mei given by him earlier.Best of luck and i hope it is a national treasure you will be in the $$$$ if it is. But for me I am not convinced based on what I see, sorry. Regards Shan NB this is only an opinion and not meant to offend.

Hello, As per the findings above and in addition. I have split the colour chanels of the image of the mei posted by the originator and there are these Anomalies in addition to the above mentioned. In the sample mei the Yoshi character has an almost identical (90% smaller)length second top line cross to the yoshi and the samples from Fujishiro have a clear difference between the length of these lines (50% or smaller). The Box for the yoshi character is on the sample two strokes and open at top left and bottom right corners.Not the same as the genuine examples. the Kuni character is open top left and bottom right on the sample. It seems the mei carver did not close his box Kanji at top left and bottom right corners. This is not the case with the genuine Mei. This is Gimei Gentlemen.based on the supplied information. Regards Shan

Thanks guys, Milt ,I will give it a clean as you sugest. regards Shan

Ha ha very funny Jacques :lol: However....In my defence.......................I went on information supplied by the seller,which in this case was a Very very noted and respected High End dealer I have probably been well and truly "had" to some degree (Big Time) ,as i have been laughed at and ridiculed for quoting the sales pitch that lead me to buy this item, from almost all on the forum and elsewhere. (chinese modern blade,junk,trash etc..etc) Only a small handful have agreed that the blade may come to something more (and they were all polishers after extra work) This just goes to show that even your forums theories on where to buy are not always right. No matter who or where you find an item in the field of Nihonto, you can still be the victim of spurious attribution and not even the larger dealers offer foolproof protection as if they have bought poorly they need to recover there money. I now always treat potential new items as ordinary until proven otherwise.NTHK NBTHK Honami Sansan Kato or other reputable origami accepted.Otherwise its just a run of the mill gimei blade. So now i am a cynic. I also had blades that all the experts declaired "could be early soshu" or "Bizen osafune 1500" or whatever and they in the end turned out to be nothing more than the junk you admonish me about presenting on the forum. But fear not .....i am learning (the hard way) regards shan

Careful boys........

Thanks for that Milt,but sadly this one is also a waki/tanto size and is not quite as close a match as the other you found. Its missing the 2 Bugs in the branches and the tree itself. Very similar but not as good as your other one found which as you rightly stated would have made a great daisho set. but if you find another.....regards shan

Hi,I am not sure what you mean by a "reverse blade" but I used to have a Tanto called a Kubikiri has the ha on the inside of the curve of the blade as opposed to the outside curve. These are thought to be Headcutters by some schools of thought or dispatchers of wounded warriors on the field of battle. They also have a sickle like shape to them. Regards Shan

Just a not of caution but i am getting a few Tsuba lately that have been rather poorly photographed but look quite nice,But that have turned out to be hand painted in something supposed to resemble patina.I have had 3 in as many weeks and just wanted to point out that the seller is not happy to replace or refund and says the buyer is "fussy" which of course is true when you are buying a "Genuine edo product" that has "not been messed with" and it turns out to be neither edo or original and has a lovely coat of emulsion on it. You are probably more experianced than i am about these items,but i doub`t i would get "caught out" if i had the item "in hand" so to speak. I guess it is safer to buy one good tsuba from a know seller,than 3 bad tsuba from a seller you thought was a friend (clearly there are no "friends" in Ebay trades and no Honour). regards Shan

How do i clean it without removing all the patina? soap and water? What is the tecnic for cleaning tsuba without damaging? regards Shan

Hi Milt, Wish i had seen that sooner. Yes its almost identical. Slightly different but a pair for sure. What are the chances of finding another one like it. No way of finding the buyer i guess. regards Shan

Hi again, Surely this forum was not originally set up to offer buying assistance on any online sales whatsoever. If you felt that you needed to ask about the blade, then follow your instincts,They said something was wrong and it is. Its a tired blade and not so well forged,It is worth whatever the winning bidder is willing to pay for it and not a penny more. Me...well its marginally better than a Tsunagi... but thats just me. regards Shan

Thanks Guys. regards shan

Hi All, My first ever Blade found in a Barn in Devon 25 years ago was a Tamba No Kami Yoshimichi and the Sudare-Ba was a lot nicer than the hamon shown on this listing ,Lineage from the mishina school if i remember rightly. I am not sure of the swirls and the 2 dots but i hate this version of this usually intersting hamon. Mine was simply the lines with a swirl twice either side,but it was so much nicer and more expertly done. It was a fashionable variant of the showy hamons like Kiku sui , Hako-Ba ,Sanbonsugi and other striking hamon. Brought back memories none the less. regards Shan

Hello, Well in the spirit of putting my foot in it again. :D I think the mei speaks for itself. The character Mitsu is a bit "squat" and does not look very "naturally" done.The atari seem to be random all over the mei. It still depends on the era that the item is attributed too but instinct says it is not right for someone who wrote there name a lot. Now who is going to prove me wrong? regards Shan

Hi Guys, Please don`t for one minute think that paypal will help you to resolve any issues or protect you in any way,because they won`t in most cases.(and even if originally found in your favour will reverse the judgement without notifying you) This credit card chargeback scam is always found in the favour of the buyer regardless of postal proof of delivery,teh seller just states that the item was an weighted empty box and can get a full refund almost immediatly.They get the goods and the money. I also have a claim that was found in the sellers favour regardless of proof that the clearly Fake tsuba was returned and his signature was emailed to them with the official proof of postage sent by Royal mail UK confirming his signature for the registered postage delivery.They said they could not confirm reciept of the goods from the proof supplied!!!! (work that one out if you can) they closed the case in his favour without even investigating porperly so now i have no goods and no money and they have irrifutable proof the item was sent and recieved. Paypal don`t seem to want to assist with anything in the UK anyway,perhaps its better in the US. I have closed my paypal account as it is not as safe as you think. regards Shan

Just playing Brian... I will know a goto when i see it. (there was a kashira on ebay the other day with a shi shi that was superb quality and had been turned into a piece of jewellery,I bid on it but as as single oddment it was beautiful but too expensive.) regards Shan

Hi Brian, If you look to the posted image of the Nakago Back edge (the one on its own)you will see near the jiri a centre line.This is raised like the/a mune is.(live an inverted V) But i see what you mean the direction of the mune does not line up. So maybe a mune shaped Edge to the original Nakago then? Ever hear of a smith that finished the back edge of the Nakago that way? Very strange. If you had it in hand you would be guessing as well. Its raised and very like a Mune. regards Shan

Hi All,Very interesting views. I think because the nakago has evidence of a mune all the way to the tip of the nakago, that the entire nakago was once blade and that it was shortened for some reason, then shortened again after a polish exposed a ware. Its a guess but i think that the original nakago has long gone and an ancient suriage has remained near the last 2 inches of the nakago and a newer (but still old) suriage has taken place or machiokuri as has already been sugested. If this is the case, then it was a wakizashi originally and therefore the sugata has altered quite a bit. I have to wonder at this stage what it would have looked like Ubu and if it is as sugested a sue Bizen older Ko Bizen Blade . It will survive another polish IMHO as its only flaws are visable and there is "plenty of meat" left yet.But its sashikomi polish shows enough so i will wait for a while on doing it as i have over 12 blades that are qued for Togoshi before this one. many useful points there and if you find anything similar but way longer and Ubu,let me know as i am intrigued. regards Shan

Hi all, This is great feedback and very very useful ,but i feel that you have all missed the key info here. The mune continues to the Nakago jiri. i have used this image to indicate the extent of the work. It is only filed off for the first 2-3 inches of the nakago,the remaining has been left untouched,is raised and definatly an old part of the mune. What are your views? regards Shan

Here are some larger images for you to hopefully judge better Many thanks Shan

Hello, Yes very true Brian, The nakago does not exibit signs of cleaning as there was never the degree of rust near the Habakimoto as there was near the nakago jiri ( if i were to clean the Jiri end it would be pitted and polished off after i finished)and the Yasureme are not affected by a cleaning attempt IHMO.they are still very pronounced and clear to the eye.(but it was a good call from an image KM and not the best images either) But let us first agree that there has been no cleaning as far as i can tell. I had noted that there is evidence of the mune all the way to the jiri so it may well be O-suriage or perhaps there was a blade made that had a mune shape on the nakago? (but unlikely) If the blade is O suriage that would make it at the very least a 42cm Nagasa. Is it possible it was a Koto Wakizashi or are we leaning towards early shinto? Maybe a sunnobi Tanto in the style of a Koto Piece? Problem is it is to all pretence and purposes a Tanto shaped blade. regards Shan

Hi Brian, The first is a fuchi and its quite well done but ruined by the complete lack of care shown in the application of the gold.All that effort and skill then to ruin it with a bit of slapdash application of a painted colour. The second item is a Koiguchi decoration and did come from a decent set of mounts that were broken.Its got even more detail when magnified as all the flowers are bunches of smaller flowers. I have also listed a set of fittings for a saya under the "are these mon or zodiac signs" post. I think these were shakudo over Brass or copper?strange markings on them though and not in great condition. Might also be iron though(i don`t want to clean them up so don`t know for sure and i have no magnet) Regards shan