shan

Hi again, How come there are only 2 seals on that Kanteisho paper? i thought that 5 was the norm.Was this a disagreement or a small shinsa. Shinsa decisions can be turned around. I read on a Japanese forum of a Japanese man who submitted a mumei Orsoraku Tanto for shinsa and they Pink slipped it for some reason that they never made clear.He took it up to the offices of the NTHK and protested. Withing the next 2 weeks he had it papered to quite a high level and an apology.I am trying to find the forum because there were a lot of people having the same problems with shinsa.I am not saying they always get it wrong but they don`t always get it right either according to this other forum i mentioned.So perhaps the panel were not in agreement about some aspect of this blade in the first place. As far as i know Hagire is any form of crack that eminates from the ha and goes towards the mune. It can be visable one side or both. I think at a guess,it is called a "fatal flaw" because it is a huge weakness and i would guess in battle, if your blade broke bacause of this weakness then that could be Fatal for you.yaki-ware can go anyway and is in the hamon usually(a tempering flaw)its another considered Fatal Flaw. Regards shan

Hi all, Firstly,I am not a togoshi. But I have to say that it would surprise me greatly if the polisher could cause Hagire on a blade that was not already potentially there. I have seen bashed and abused blades that had chips in the Ha up to 5-6mm deep that exhibited no signs of Hagire whatsoever. the seller states the item is not his & IMHO It didn`t look like it needed a polish anyway. But who is to say that from the time that those images “before” were taken several years and owners and levels of care since 1989 had not passed? It could also be that shinsa didn`t see it at Kantei. I would have thought that being subjected to excessive stress may cause hagire and thermal shock may also play a part. But to bend a blade so hard to cause it during a polish.WOW that had to have the fault inherent to the blade didn`t it? P.s I have no problem with hagire as i have no intentions of cutting with the sword again.I will expect the price to reflect this fault ,but imagine the blades that would be lost if we all said NO to hagire. Regards shan

Yep, thats what my own looked like,a little tighter on the swirls but nonetheless the same. regards shan

HI, I had in fact thought of this when the ban was proposed, but in order to conform with current legislation ,I would have to have the items either physically checked for authenticity and fill out many forms or have written proof that the buyer was to use the item for an approved "sport"(and fill out many forms and checks) You can imagine the “red Tape” that would surround any website like this. Tracability,proof of reciept, disregarding the fact that many couriers will not transport weapons if they know about them and for insurance you have to state the item and its value,This is in fact why eBay removed all swords over 50cm I believe, because of the "paperwork" involved in conforming to current UK Laws. Then there are the payment options etc etc etc.... There was also the concern that there would not be enough support for the UK Trade and sales site as it’s only the UK who is affected by this situation. Goods leaving the UK are not affected. Best solution is a website like this forum, that puts collectors into contact with other collectors and they do the deals themselves. However i believe that some of us need that "fix" you get from auction style listings and the possability of a "bargain",so perhaps someone will engineer an element of a site that uses trust (through feedback)to allow buyers to bid on an item through a closed bidding system like PM`s and the seller just updates the current price until the auction end date (that can be predetermined)Honesty is involved though. A bid recieved at 11.30 GMT on an item ending at 11.30 GMT would be the final bid and anything after would HAVE to be Ignored as too late. (or sealed bids through PM) This would not be a problem for most because you already do similar on ebay,you say £500 and they bid by proxy to cover another bidders high bid. (or i PM £600 and you say,the bid at the moment is £500 so that makes you the high bidder at £510. and so on) Lot of work though. regards shan

Hi, In what country would you expect him to be based? regards shan

Hi All, Well these are all good opinions but as such do not actually get any resolution to this problem, so when a certain lack of ethics is shown then a certain lack of ethics is called for i would guess. Tell the seller that you are in contact with a great many US, Canadian and European collectors and if this is his intended sales pattern and guarantee, then you feel it a necessity to advise all of these people of his decision regarding the blade so that they do not fall prey to this themselves.(Point him to the forum if you have to and its permitted by the owners) If Mizukage was not totally obvious then I can understand ,but your defense is likely Tenuous at best even so,If it was then oops!!, but we must also note that certain schools were noted for producing the effects of mizukage such as the hizen Tadayoshi and Horikawa so this is not in itself proof of retempering.(1st defence?) Is there Mizukage and if so what was the attribution based on the sellers knowledge? What was the written description? I believe that if a seller has included certain information in the description to assist in the buyer’s belief that the seller was knowledgeable in these items and to assure the item was of the value suggested by the pricetag, with this information supplied, then omitting the relevant conditional reports cannot be an acceptable defence. I.E If the seller stated the item was flawless and it had hagire that was not evident at the time of purchase to you then it is at his discretion as to whether he refunds or not.(it is sometimes a better solution to just go for an exchange and hope for the best) First try tact,then try to appeal to there better nature,then become Devious and look for an equal value exchange,then when all else fails and you have nothing to lose.... get Downright Nasty.(lets face it... you wont buy from them again anyway) P.s I am probably just talking rubbish and if so please ignore and i beg your forgiveness (my "get out of jail free card" i have adopted) regards shan

Thanks John, I have seen that but they can get you back with a revenge buy or just a follow up to the negative saying something like "Buyer is lying and knows nothing about Japanese swords" " it was perfect when i sent it,Must have happened during delivery" and so on. Poeple are not leaving the feedback they should. I bought some of that Katana polish (Wenol) in a thimble size pot for polishing Japanese blades on ebay and said it like it was in my feedback (because i had a friend who is a professor at southampton University test it because it was rubbish).I had over 6 other people contact me to state that they agreed it was wenol and the seller was ripping us all off and the seller was charging $40-50 for a tiny teaspoon full pot of it.I said "then, if you are unhappy leave the feedback you feel they deserve". My feedback is to this day still the only Neutral or negative that that seller got,......so work that one out if you can......??? The ebay mentality is a strange beast. regards Shan

Hi Nick, I have no idea either,lets hope someone does know of a smith or school who did this very shallow mune. regards shan

Hi all, all useful comments and providing the images are large enough then the item can be judged on those said images(If the actual flaws have been photographed which they rarely are). I had low res and a poor basic description but relied on the other buyers feedback to know whether to "trust " or not. The problem with ebay is that most buyers are somewhat terrified of leaving an honest feedback responce for fear of getting a neutral or negative themselves (not necessarily on the same item,(AKA revenge buying). THis ends up giving the seller a better feedback score than they deserve. If i sold this, i would not be surprised at getting poor feedback if i had not mentioned the flaws,but to be honest i would not sell it without pointing out the flaws anyway.(yes i know it will effect the final value...but thats life). I want every person i deal with to understand that "when its good it gets great praise, but when its bad it gets no praise and if i feel that the problems were noticable then i give bad feedback.(i expect the same from people who buy from me) There is no such thing as buyers remorse,just an item recieved that is not as described. regards Shan

HI Nick, Well its sometimes difficult to get a message across and more so with this one. Look to the image titled Hamon2 .Jpg and you will see that the Mune is barely visable,This is not a trick of angle to the mune it is as you see it more or less. Most of my swords have a mune profile that at its highest point (the ridge) is around 2.5mm This blades mune is less than 1mm. This pictrure below is a standard size mune according to my collection.Compare it with Hamon2.Jpg and you will see regards Shan

Hi Guys, These are all valid points and as usual you pay your money and you take a chance.1484 feedback with 100% and many Japanese blades sold and selling would seem a safe bet.(wouldn`t it?) I think what i was trying to say was that ,if this person has ommitted the finer details of this item, then we can safely assume that he/she has done so on the other items they are selling (or is it luck of the draw)? I had a look at the images and could not see anything so bad from the images(couple of minor chips less than 1mm but nothing like what i found when it turned up) but then there are 2 sides to every chip and the photographed side can very well be the lesser of the visable chip (impact side looks better than the opposite side because of blade shear) I am absolutly sure that this is my fault for yet again buying based on Tiny images from a so called "trusted seller". This post is not about my stupidity though,its about sellers failing to mention substantial or even critical problems with a blade that they know damn well will effect the bidding amounts.Its dishonest. So be warned that some of these sellers may well be selling you something with Hagire and he knows it. Make a note of this seller and avoid like the plague. regards shan

I believe there were a couple of brothers who worked in the WWII period who stamped this way and they were quite popular. I will try to remember the names but one the elder brother was more highly regarded than the other and his swords are considered to be very well made. sorry the info is incomplete but i will try to find where i saw the information, reggards shan

I am sure you have all had great deals from this seller but if that the case then why? Ebay seller "antiqueblades" sold me a sword with this description. Interesting Samurai wakizashi from Koto or Shinto period, having an intricate Harimono work of tree branches with leafs towards the tip of the blade, few very small nicks to the edge, nothing major, no blisters or openings in the still and the blade should polish well. Shirasaya case is old and in good condition, for some reason band by a duct tape in two places. sword came with WW II period papers confirming the authenticity of the sword and by whom it was captured in 1945. Interesting item with History, besides being an authentic samurai weapon.OA 31 3/4". Blade 21 1/4". His/her name is Murat and the seller Forgot to mention 28 chips to the ha of which 8 are more than 2mm deep and a carbon pocket on the omote.also forgot to say"has been "polished" on a grinding wheel" so has deep yasureme on the blade itself.I doubt this can be polished to remove the problems.$500 tsunagi again.Please sellers stop ripping us Off!!! Is it just me or have others found the descriptions of ebay items seem to not include the obviose flaws in the hope that they will "not be noticed"? I will never buy from this seller again its that bad. A refund has been requested,i will keep you informed. regards shan

Hi Nick, Its not so easy and thats where it may catch you out. If you look at the images the mune is barely visible its that low and the kissaki is very small. But the Nakago is almost new and looks like blade material in its entirety...so its O-suriage and was probably Katana or more likely Tachi sized.That in turn makes the sugata deeper and with a more pronounced sori. Maybe i see it wrong but its a professional and sympathetic 0-suriage that was meant to look "natural" and i think this in turn speaks for the blade. I truly do not know where to start with this it does not conform to anything i have or have ever had. If you have an idea let me know what that is because i am stumped,but its nothing obviose to me. I have 3 non conforming blades IHMO and this is the first post. regards shan

Hi Kevin, I will be brief because it is a little off topic but: "where the weapon was made before 1954 or was made in Japan at any other time according to traditional methods of forging swords." You are required to provide evidence to Customs in support of the "defence", and then within 20 days of the date on the letter or the "contents will be siezed and disposed of by HM revenue and customs" So if you bought from abroad based on images,then how can you truly declare the item is antique if you have never seen the goods? especially if the other party does not want to help. Hates them,my precious! Nasty Tricksy Hobbits !! shan

I have a blade that i really don`t know where to start on researching. Its a wakizashi but i think its O-suriage but very well done or a very late blade. It has a very shallow mune and a small kissaki.Suguba with nice activity. Any pointers to get me going would be very useful (and no digs about library expansion please,i have to make do with what i have) Regards Shan

Aha! Its worth noting that the lower 3rd kanji above the Higher quadrangle, to the left of the ovocular hyperthalmus has an atari oriented towards the 12 oclock position as opposed to 9 oclock on the true mei I believe gentlemen..... this may be Gimei...... :lol: Nah........ looks good to me ..though i did think the work was mostly in suguba...... shan

Forgive me again in advance. It is worth noting that these are individual views and opinions based on the available information supplied and are meant to assist and help to inform in an analytical and collaborative way without actually stating the item definatly is something or is definatly not something. The final decision on how far to take this item (or indeed any item) then rests with the owner,who having known nothing to begin with ,now has several differing opinions to pick through ,put together and determine his (or her) next course of action. I believe the entire forum has succeded in this in a round about way. I have been told to keep these posts short so... Good job guys...the original poster of this question, is now much better informed to make a decision. Regards shan

Hi all, Talking of shipping into the UK. I had a sword sent from USA clearly labeled (Antique collectable sword approx year of manufacture 1500 Bizen osafune school)Item arrived within 7 days. Another labeled "Japanese sword" Held by customs for almost 4 weeks so far and i have had to make numerous phone calls and emails explaining why it is an antique and not a repro and asking me for evidence to prove this.(which i do not have as i have just bought it) My advice is to label it accuratly and don`t try to sneak it into the UK as if they check it (which they always do) they will think you are pulling a "fast one" or smuggling and your address & postcode will be "blackmarked" from then on in and everything will get checked. This from experience is the best way for me anyway. regards shan

Hi, Personally i wouldn`t sell it at this point in time as i do not believe that it will realise its true monetary potential. Sotheby`s had a sale on the 11th November in London and its was somwhat of a letdown for sellers and auctionhouses alike with very few items even reaching the reserve prices. There is a lot of fear of the recession and i think that that will hold back the potential bids of buyers. Even the Dreaded ebay will likely produce a no sale or get too little interest to buy the item at a decent price. Find a wealthy private collector who wants it and then find a dozen more and get sealed bids for it.then you look at the highest and decide whether to sell or not.(just an option) regards Shan

Hello, Google "toshow software" and download the program. It allows for user input and changes and also additions. you can search Kanji by stroke numbers,names or even just one recognised kanji,also romanji. Its not "the gospel according to Saint peter" ...but its a good ...."what Peter said one day whilst drunk and bunking off work" and its perfectly usable. Good starting point and Not $10.... Not $5 ....no not even $1 but Freeeeeeeeeeeee. regards shan (the terrible)

Richard,Firstly i would like to apologise to you for not believing your intentions,This is not really in my nature but if you read through my first 10-15 posts you will see that I have had very insulting, negative, off topic,downright rude,responces to my postings from this forum as well and maybe i have just picked up bad habits. If i had seen your responces to replies about the sword before i had clicked the "post reply" button,i would not have been so harsh and for that i am truly sorry Richard. If you knew how many scams existed around these swords you may understand why i am somewhat sceptical at first. One of the best conmen in the UK who scammed numerous owners of there high price sports cars and motor Yachts was a "team" of a 76 year old man and his 74 year old wife passing off fake bankers draughts.(so no-one is sacrosanct from suspicion anymore sadly) Everything else regarding this blade and the motives behind all of my analytical responces have been genuine and were intended to give an indication of the items authenticity as the kamakura smith by comparisons to information supplied(which it appears not to be based on mei examples), It is a very nice item anyway,hence the words of caution on my last post,Its still likely to be a valuable item and you should get several $1000 for the fittings alone. If you have had some emailed offers of around $1000 then you will probably know that ,that may just about cover the Tsuba value, so lets hope that none of the $1000 offers came from a member of this forum.(which i am sure they did not because the forum is here to educate people like you and like me and not to gain from our lack of knowledge). I am sorry that i jumped to any conclusions regarding your intentions and i hope that you can forgive an ill mannered idiot, The moderators are right it was an ill concieved attack on your integrity and i don`t know why i reacted the way that i did. If you are lucky enough to get the sword,do what i sugested and get it looked at my someone who has nothing to gain from its valuation or attribution.Polishing it will cost you money and its an expensive thing to do in the USA or Canada.Or sell it to the highest bidder and be done with it.It should make a minimum of $6000 from what i can see and it would not surprize me if it went for a great deal more.(so the offers of $1000 are really quite Appaulingly low IMHO) I hope you get a great attribution for it and all the best of luck in it realising a properly suitable sum of money for it. Also My appologies to anyone else i may have offended by being to blunt and jumping to conclusions. Kindest regards Shan

I would also like to Point out that these posts replies are not coming into view systematically. Nickn was the reply directly under my post when i replied to him about Gimei and the poster Richard had no reply when i looked.Now he has one after Nickn`s responce.If i had seen that my responce would have been different. Its a bit unfair that i respond to what i see, then another post seems to materialise inbetween my reply but a day or so after. Why is that delay happening Brian? regards shan Reply - Brian: This is not the case, and cannot happen. Likely replies are posted while others are being written, and are not seen until later.

Hi again, Well what do i know about how the system works in the USA. I have responded to information supplied and all information has been referencing Awataguchi Kuniyoshi who worked in the kamakura period so "backtracking" (no offence Jacques) is not an option here.Everything said and submitted that my narrow mind saw,related to the Kamakura smith as far as i could see. I have then looked at the execution of the mei on the blade in question and then at the supplied genuine mei and thats all. If i find it strange that this is how Probate or an Estate is desposed of in the USA then thats my problem and for that i am sorry Richard(never saw your name in the posts sorry) I doubt that the motives of Richard are other than genuine but i have no idea and do not KNOW, as Richard has contributed very little to date since the first post and certainly can stick up for himself if he finds anything i say offensive in any way. I do not know the seller so cannot judge exactly what his motives are, but i fail to see what the problem is with this item, unless the items Richard wants are $1000 and the executor insists he also takes the Tachi for an extra $5,000.(which seems unlikely but may very well still be a good price as it appears in good condition) Lanes armoury in the UK would sell that item after polish for around £5-8000+ ( at a guess)even if Gimei and probably succeed in selling it fast.If it was real sho shin,well they have some very Prestigious clientele,(you have probably bought some of their Albums or CD`s at some time) I am looking at the mei supplied and the examples supplied and they are not the same or do you dissagree? I am then looking for poster feedback and on seeing no responces and it just makes me nervous. Now i voice my feelings Bluntly as the mediators sugested in another post whence returned from Japan and i am a heratic.(and i have had such good teachers at this) I have said it before and i will say it again,Everyone knows Japanese swords are worth Money. If the poster gave us references as to how ridiculous the sum was that the estate has asked for we could then judge its viability and say no ite not worth that to me or something like that. I also know that a few of you are already rubbing your hands together over this Item and I would love to know how many PM`s have been sent. Again with all due respects to you, Richard the Original poster (and the whole world),but forum members-your averice was played upon with the first of these posts. "I will try to see this item goes to one of you collectors (that is if it is worthy of your collection???)" Hmmm cheeky tactic but it worked. Sorry i will refrain from any more contrabutions to this post. Dear Richard, Its a lovely item (of that i have no doubt)and motives aside and going on "face value" it will be better placed within a specialist Sale of Nihonto at one of the Major auction houses like Sothebys.It will attract much interest and will either sell very well or it wont sell at all and if that is the case,you lose nothing and can then offer it to another interested party on this forum or on ebay where again it will get a lot of interest.Get it looked at by someone who is not a dealer and has no interest in aquiring it first,Find out if the mei is genuine to a period smith and that is the first move,then once its confirmed ,only then get its monetary value from someone who gains from its highest value (not lowest for resale),thats my advice. Regards Shan

I could not possibly comment I like milt he is down to earth and lacks arrogance. But i think you may be right he could be in danger of rubbing hid patination right off. If its within reason its.........reasonable. regards shan