sencho

I haver seen a kai gunto locally that had no defined kissaki to speak of.... machine made.... similar cut mei I haven't ever seen a fake gunto or gendaito that has a mei cut like this.... as I say usually it looks like it was made by a dremel!.... looks to me like a stainless steel machine made blade..... No idea on the fittings...... but often Chinese fakes are a lot more ropey than this.... right??

Ahhh yes... thanks Moriyama san..... HISAKANE? ....and why the diesel engine manufacturer.... KUBOTA?

Looks like KABOTA HISA SHU......?????????????? :? 久保田久蕉 Nakano looks too good to be a chinese fake... doesn't have the greeey/yellowy finish and dremel mei,...... I would immediately believe gunto (machine made)....

yep.... some very interesting similarities of the design though.... the three main characters all in the same poses, etc... pot with same vegetation and decorations.... mei is surely different from the f/k..... cheers

I just found this while surfing the web...... I thought I had seen this theme before and finally re discovered this thread.... and here is the link that I just found.... http://www.trocadero.com/momirudo/items ... .html#item not sure about the mei which looks a little more "wooden" than the f/k, but the theme (down to the decoration on the pot!) is almost identical.... this would have made a nice little set! I just love Hamano school and Nara styles ..... fantastic! Cheers!

Thanks Jacques!!! :D

Hi Nigel and Gabriel. Apparently is the keyword here. We are supposing such a smith didn't exist because of he's not mentioned in our sources but maybe that Gordon has sources we haven't access to. Easier solution . Absolutely, Carlo... I would be interested to see if there is any documentation of a smith signing this way.... My point before (which wasn't laid out particularly well because of last night shochu!) was how can a signature be gimei, if the signature is of a nonexistent smith....? :D cheers!

Nigel....don't forget that we also have a translation by Gordon Robson earlier in the thread too, and an opinion that it doesn't look good. In the sword world, that opinon ranks pretty darn high :D Brian Gordon, sumimasen onegaiashimasu... Gomen'.... watashiwa bakakohai desu.....!! :lol: Thanks for the link, Bri.... now here is a question.... is a smith that signed BIZEN KUNI JU AKIMITSU documented? I can't find it! Also if not documented or existed, why would a faker bother to fake AKIMITSU and include a location where there was (apparently) no AKIMITSU. Seems like he would be inventing a smith to include on the nakano..... :? Cheers!

OK... I just found the website associated with this.... it is nothing to do with xxxxx.com.... I will let the members do their own google to find the site... ... this might get political as I am sure lots of people know both of the correspondents.... Cheers!

Ahhh.... thanks Moriyama san... I had thought of Sukemitsu but did not have the courage of my own convictions to put it down..... :lol: I was even thinking about a very dodgy NORI at one point!!! The kanji does not look right to me for SUKE, but I cannot recognize a style of kanji handwiting like a Japanese person would...... A bit like Milt's prescription pad.... Cannot recognize a single word, but it is English in there..... somewhere!!! By the way Jimmy with regards to the signature (MEI) the first two characters are BI-ZEN (備前) (province), then KUNI JU (国住) which basically means "lives in" and then SUKEMITSU (助光) smith's name. (so SUKEMITSU LIVING IN BIZEN PROVINCE)..... correct me if I am wrong anyone .... I have taken Moriyama san's appraised mei to be a safer bet than anyone else including myself!!! cheers!

also AKIMITSU is a possibility.... but I can't find a smith signing like this either..... AKIMITSU 明光 cheers!

HI Jimmy, Welcome to the board, mate Looks like your sword mei is BIZEN NO KUNI TOMOMITSU 備前国住朋光 I can only see one Tomomitsu (using this kanji) in Hawleys.... and he was Rikuoku and didn't apparently sign this way.... so now I am suspicious about the TOMO kanji..... The Fuchi says INABA with a kao after.... don't know much about fittings though INABA.... 因幡 by the way the sword doesn't look so bad.... Cheers

KANENARI....？ 兼成 KANETOKI....? 兼辰 ..........

like looking at shapes in the clouds :lol: .... what kanji are you seeing for Kane, Milt??? Cheers...

On further checking I think Errol is correct too..... From Hawleys KUNIHISA (KUN 249) 1573 BUNGO 15 points signed both BUNGO KUNI JU TAKATA JU KUNIHISA and TAKATA JU KUNIHISA what are the dimensions of the sword, Derek? cheers!

縞田任国久 the SHIMADA version.... maybe this... with handwriting difference on the first kanji 高田任国久 TAKADA version.... this one doesn't look right to me.... but as usual I could be way off Cheers

If you don't like a question or post, Reinhard, then just ignore it.... Novices learn a lot very quickly from posting and reading these type of questions.... even some of the experts, learned and most respected members have posted "quick translation" questions... some of them recently... Members that provide answers to these "trivial" questions, that you so despise, obviously do not mind answering, otherwise they would not do so... the reason that you are so upset about it baffles me, when you can just work on so many other things.... I am sure that many people do not have the resources to buy lots of books or travel to Japan... this forum provides a medium for them to learn more through discussion with the more experienced people in this field... you are entirely free not to answer these questions or not provide help to others... no one will judge you for it... Why not just concentrate on the expert posts if that is what makes you happy? No disrespect intended, but it seems like you just wasted your time answering the ebay question today, since you are obviously not interested in answering and your answer was not in the least bit constructive (and actually rather rude) to someone who is only trying to learn more and is a respectful and congenial member of the board. I am certainly no expert in Nihonto and I am lucky to have many resources at my disposal, but I certainly feel that inexperienced people should be encouraged rather than shot down. Cheers!

Great pictures Rich.... My wife and I took my parents there the other year.... it is fantastic... Also in the Nikko National Park is Lake Chuzenji which you have to get to by a road which has 48 hair raising hairpin turns and ascends about 1,500ft... there is the Chuzenji Onsen here too and the Kegon-no-taki, a spectacular, 97 meter high waterfall. On the shore of the Lake is the 2nd Futarasan Shrine (the 1st being in NIKKO and the 3rd being at the top of the mountain). The lake shore shrine has a treasure house displaying Nihonto. Autumn time when the leaves are turning, you get some crisp clear blue days, Lake Chuzenji and Nikko cannot be beaten. Cheers!

:|

I have the first 2 as TAKA YAMA The 3rd looks like TO (as in nihon-to) 刀 2nd from last looks like SHO (shu) or TOKORO..... 州 or 所 probably no bloody help at all..... oh well!! :D Cheers!

Thanks Grey and :lol: thanks Milt, So is there anything obvious about this blade that would suggest to Aoi and have them mention that it was made in the late Edo period..... or would it take further study with blade in hand...? Jacques.... a big old water trough needed to dunk that in!!! Can you imagine having to handle that during forging!!?? Cheers

Hi Jaques.... Yes... or KYOROKU 1528-1532... Strange that Aoi also call this a late Edo blade.... I guess they assume that it is a later gimei blade with a nengo to boot.... However I wonder if it is just one of the later muromachi period lesser Norimitsu... rather than a necessarily gimei.... I have a Tensho wakazashi with a similar mei.... BTW my wak could well be gimei too, but there is not much point in faking a lesser Norimitsu with date to match!!! If you wanted to fake a mei I would assume the faker would make it worth his while and fake the big guy!! Cheers

heh heh heh..... ...but the kanji on the tanto, to me, is clearly Bishu Osafune Norimitsu... :? I am having trouble reading the year on the date inscription too

備州 is there any reason why Aoi Art referred these as "MANSYU"?? http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/tanto/06435.html cheers!

Hey Pete, I had the same confusion, mate and I too am not particularly proficient either, so I was starting to doubt my ability due to the Koshoyama listing.... had to bring the missus in on that one to clarify.... (and then take all the credit!!! ) by the way, Grey... what are the dimensions of that book??? Cheers