sencho

With Pleasemx's inventory of swords on ebay, looks like he has gone from a complete novice who didn't know what a Tsunagi was, to a fully fledged Nihonto dealer.... ....from zero to hero in just a couple of months!! cheers!

If they don't like the question or it frustrates them, ignore it and move on to whatever floats their boat! Why do they bother to answer, if it is so frustrating? Plenty of polite knowledgeable people on the board are only to happy to help, and less knowledgeable people are only to happy to try to help too, as a way to increase their own personal education. The elitists should let it go and only answer the elite postings!! Correct Paul..... they should use the board as an equal to gain knowledge as well as other websites and books. They should certainly not be shot down for trying to gain some knowledge from an easily accessible medium. [EDIT] Paul, this isn't an attack on your post or a rebuttal... your post is very constructive and I agree whole heartedly with your general theme. [END EDIT] I agree with Simon almost 100%, but I do choose to try ignore the rudeness, even though it does make me shake my head in incredulity at times.... Still the shochu will get us through... stiff upper lip and all that, what!.... see you in May, Si.... Cheers!

Or maybe just gritting it's teeth, as the cold water finally reached it's nether regions! Cheers!

Does this mean the e-sword example has "not made it"? It clearly says "for iai".... ....haven't tried to read the rest of e-sword's description... in 3 meter seas here and reading Japanese makes me feel sick! Cheers!

Guido... There are 2 Paul Chen's producing repro and cutting swords one has Hanwei in Dalian, China (Chen Chao Po - Paul Chen) Originally from Taiwan one has Cheness Cutleries, (Paul Y. Chen) based in California with factory in China. cheers

Thanks Carlo and Jacques! :D

I recently picked up a 1972 copy of Tosho Zenshu Shinto Hen, and folded neatly inside the pages was an original oshigata, on very fine rubbing paper (what is the name for that stuff?) Have put my findings under spoilers in case anyone wants to have an un-influenced go at it I found the mei difficult to read but did recognise the characters within the mei. 　 Curiosity fuelled, I did some reading and decided that this was oshigata of 2nd gen, who signed this way... However I am having trouble with the last two characters. I am thinking it is Anyway interesting little find this tucked away in a moth eaten old book! I take it was a westerner who did this.... Anyone the originator of this Oshigata? Cheers!

I have just been reading Rich T's site.... Could the second oshigata date be Hinoto Hitsuji??? That would be the 44th year beginning on 1804.... 1847...

...and here is the second dated Ko-ka (??) Nen Hatchi Gatsu Hi... I am having trouble with the year... Ko-ka period was only 4 years... is "Ji" (2nd) 次　part of this?? Cheers!

As this has been such a great and educational thread, it has had me researching Kiyomaru more. I have found oshigata and details of two more of his blades in one of my books... I thought I'd share, so here is the first dated Ka-ei Go Nen Ni Gatsu Hi 1852 Can anyone help me with the date on the second one? Cheers!

Piers, Not sure if you already checked this, but Hawley lists this smith: Muneyoshi 宗吉 - Settsu - 1661 - 15 (points) - Student of Muneshige 宗重 - MUN683 攝津 国 源 宗吉 Settsu Kuni Minamoto Muneyoshi. Itame, Large Midare 攝州 住 源 宗吉 Sesshu ju Minamoto Muneyoshi 攝津 守 宗吉 Settsu no K. Muneyoshi (I guess the "K." is kami.... right?) Interesting to note Hawley records the 2nd mei as "sesshu" As you said 2 Muneshige's listed under settsu, one dated 1661 and one dated 1686 (MUN 397 / MUN 396) I think the Muneshige you mention (MUN 396) was student of Tsuda Sukehiro (according to Hawley) and he says that he is listed in Toko Taikan page 617 and Shinto vol of Nihontoko Jiten page 196... he also signed "sesshu" at times (apparently) 5 Listed under Harima (1420, 1504, 1596, 1661, 1688) You probably have been through all of this, but anyway, hope it helps...!! Cheers!

Hi Lee, I think Reinhard is letting us educate ourselves, by not saying anything and letting us come to our own conclusions. He did not say it was gimei or shoshin.. Reinhard (if I am correct) is showing us a comparison from the same date as your sword. He is saying that a comparison with a mei from a sword, made 10 or 20 years before or after may be not much help, as a smith's signature often evolved over time. The kanji is written as the same kanji on both swords..., ...but just as you and I can write the same words in English, in similar handwriting, the words were still written by different people. Even if I tried to copy your handwriting exactly, I would still miss a few elements of your particular style, and my copy of your handwriting would not be as fluid as your regular writing.... .. same as on a copied mei... some of these guys on the board, can tell immediately with some smiths, they have studied for so long. ... I am still learning and may be proved wrong, but I see inconsistencies between the two mei's. Especially the 3rd kanji is strikingly different... as if a copy was tried but did not quite make it.... Let's see what the others say about it.... Cheers

That's good... thanks Reinhard.. To me the comparison suggests strongly gimei... the mei in question does not have the same "handwriting" as the example... (in my novice opinion anyway) The third kanji of the mei is particularly "loose" and untidy.. Cheers

Token Oshigata Taikan.... got it for ï¿¥5000 (About $50)... only 300 ever printed... the most beautiful sword book I have ever seen... I have #74... Cover is genuine leather with original case and gold leaf inlay. This book contains more than 500 swordsmiths with super-clean oshigata, boshi, hamon, smith history, and his characteristics. Most of blades are from Kokuho, JuyoBunkazai and Juyo Token level. Printed only once in 1975. see pictures here viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2121&hilit=token+oshigata+taikan Mad thing was that it was in a second hand book store in Tokyo which was 2 doors away from a great sword shop.... literally 45ft.... if only they had known!! Also just managed to get vol 1, 2, 3 and 5 of the Nihonto Zen Shu for $50 for the lot from Amazon (already have #4 courtesy of Henry Wilson)... now just 6, 7, 8 and 9 to go!! Lastly found Fuller and Gregory Military Swords of Japan.... on Amazon last week for $25... Cheers!!

can't say.... we're on the wrong forum.... might get in trouble!!

Rick, We are very lucky that a few on here do have a lot of knowledge.... I however am certainly not one of them.... just a novice comparing oshigata..... So many people are trolling ebay for nihonto, that plenty would have seen it. May as well post it in the ebay section and have the 'spurts teach us something about the Rai school and how they signed and further kantei attributes. Cheers

Rick, Watching the one on ebay, eh?? I have looked at all my available oshigata and to me it doesn't fit anything.... Kuni seems all wrong for starters... Cheers

.... or "Nihonto"..... ...at least all the chinese crap will be gone!!!! :lol: cheers!

Thanks Mark.... I think I had a brain fart when I was thinking about this!! Or was it the Shochu???? Cheers!

roger that Milt.... thanks..... I should have thought about this a little more! Cheers!

Darcy, Am extremely novice question here, sumimasen.... If the blade was shortened, would it automatically be re tempered...? I would have thought so, otherwise there would be no boshi to speak of, right???? Regards Nigel

... probably like Milt's dentist prescriptions!!! :lol: Amazes me how you can decipher this handwriting Morita san.... otsukare! By the way... you're, without doubt, a gentleman. Cheers!

Harvey... don't clean the tang mate.... big no no!!... leave as is.... I think the "US Flag" stripes are a polishers mark.... cheers

Grey, Obviously it is a shirasaya that has been painted, right? looks almost like a hex nut is holding it together!.... maybe just a new shirasaya would be easiest... cheers!

Just showed it to my wife.... she said... could be Masahiro... Then showed her Moriyama san's outline.... she said... "told you, it's Masahiro (or Masakou); now do something sensible and open a bottle of wine!!" Cheers!