Okan

Hey guys, My latest flea market find. Can you help me identify sukashi?

Steve, these pictures were already shared in your first post..sharing same pictures over and over won't help you to sell this blade..Also they are called fittings not "hard ware".

I took this picture the other day..It's from an old Japanese war magazine that I noticed in a book market. I wasn't going to share it as it's a sensitive picture but I think it's important. (I'm adding a spoiler tag) But it was a good reminder for me that these were actually weapons and their lives depended on it.. Sometimes i forget that... A soldier or a civilian, killed in a night raid, holding his sword. I'm sure this sword was very dear to him. A family heirloom maybe? Maybe one of us owned this exact sword before..Perhaps it was a mumei wakizashi and we decided to sell it for a papered one. Imagine owning this sword now...it's priceless right..Just like every other sword you have.

@Brian Please add a feature to ignore or hide topics..Or maybe "Also hide the topics created by people the you've ignored" option.

Awww the museum is closed..I was planning to go there next month..

I would.

Buy silver..buy gold..doesn't matter how much you spend on those..They are no fun though

Never buy a sword as an investment.

I can't speak for all of them but Yanagisawa Yoshiyasu, a powerful Samurai who was an official in the shogunate(17th century), had a vast amount of swords, mostly gifted by Tokugawa shogun Tsunayoshi. Tsunayoshi himself also had huge interest in swords and fittings. Apparently, he loved to gift swords Excerpts from the book - In the Shelter of the Pine: (His Highness: Shogun Tsunayoshi Lord: Yoshiyasu) - When the soup and saké were offered to His Highness, he bestowed a long sword made by one Hōki no Yasutsuna. For My Lord’s wife, silver and some splendid silks. For his eldest son, a sword that bore the name “Rai Kunitoshi.” For his second son, a sword forged by Aoe Tsugunao. - In the autumn, on the occasion of His Highness’s visit, the baby had his first audience and was presented with a long sword forged by Aritoshi as well as other gifts. - My Lord devoted himself more assiduously than ever to serving His Highness..His Highness personally presented him with a long sword called Aoe. - The gifts presented to His Highness were, from My Lord: a long sword forged by Kagemitsu; a horse and saddle; a sword forged by Rai Kunimitsu - On the second of the Eighth Month, the Central Hall was completed. That such a huge structure had been built so swiftly and now appeared in all its shining glory! Needless to say, His Highness was delighted. Straightaway he presented My Lord with a sword and fittings forged by Masamune - His Highness presented him with the short sword called “Masamitsu” from his own hand - From His Highness, there was a long sword forged by Kunimune of Bizen and silk floss, and the same for the young lord, who received a beautiful long sword called “Kobore Sadamune,” or something like that. - “We are most grateful for your efforts over the past year,” the Heir Apparent said as he presented My Lord with a long sword forged by Mitsutada of Bizen - From His Highness, there was a long sword forged by Kunimune of Bizen and silk floss, and the same for the young lord, who received a beautiful long sword called “Kobore Sadamune,” or something like that. - My Lord presented His Highness with a sword forged by Yoshisada; and the Chamberlain presented him with a sword by Rai Kunitoshi and a short sword by Kanemitsu. Great effort had been expended on the fittings, which were gorgeous and glittered with silver and gold. - And goes on... Strongly recommend this memoir, written by Ogimachi Machiko, second concubine of Yoshiyasu.

I had a chance to have a small chat with him..He seemed like a very nice person. My sincerest condolences..

Yes it's in a very old Shirasaya..Maybe it's time to replace it. Thank you Reinhard!

Why can't you just say thank you and move on? If you don't agree with us, thats fine, just move on...Also, do you think we should spend hours to prove you wrong? I don't think so..do it yourself. You are not convinced we are capable identifying swords? Great..why are you still here? There were other people like you coming and going time to time..they usually found a sword somewhere and looking to hear nice things about it..they are here to "show" their sword...they all think they are holding a treasure in their hands..and when they don't hear what they want to hear, they become hostile..and they talk..just like you..trying to prove us wrong, without ZERO knowledge. I call those people "Attention W.hores" They are seeking attention by using systematic contradiction. And they enjoy doing this..They usually have a short life here, they vanish once we stop responding and feeding them. Unlike you, most of them were grown ups. It's time to stop feeding you kid..You really should go back to your toy watch collectors club or whatever and pick your fights there with your peers. You'll be done with Nihonto once you sell your precious family heirloom anyways. I'm out. Doei Doei!

You are one patient man.. @Brian

Thanks for sharing Simon.

For me, and most of us here, it's not about the hunt! We are not hunting toy cars or watches..%99 of the time there are no Japanese Swords hidden in an antique shop or flea markets. If you knew the Nihonto world, you would also agree on this. We study and learn something each day. This is what really excite most of us. We don't spend our days on ebay or marktplaats looking for someone selling a cheap blade actually worth a lot. Thats what lower end dealer does(I don't judge them..lots of dealers in Japan are also doing this)..they risk money..they buy a rusty blade..polish it..paper it..sell it, if they can. There are high-end dealers who know what their customer would like..There are dealers who wants to sell 3k swords for 10k..There are collectors who wants to buy 10k swords for 3k...If you don't want to be fooled, you have to know what you are buying. My last comments on Gimei: Once, someone offered me a Gassan sword(another great maker). Mei checks, style checks...everything seems in order and he asks for 15k(honest price for Gassan).but it doesn't have papers..He says he bought the sword from an old wealthy Japanese guy who lives here in Amsterdam, owns a restaurant called "Hosokawa". Japanese guy said to him that he was inherited the sword by his family..His family name is "Hosokawa", a very powerful Japanese clan, so dealer thinks this sword is really Gassan! I asked if the sword was papered..it wasn't. I offered him 4k which was a decent amount to risk. He didn't agree so I didn't buy it. I simply didn't want to invest 15k for a sword without being %100 sure it's Gassan, not a copy.(even if it look great) So I bought something else. Dealer couldn't sell the sword so he decided to send it to Japan(shinsa for papers). Turned out, sword indeed was Gimei. Sword indeed belonged to the Hosokawa family. They were gifted a Gimei Gassan sword and they didn't even know about it.(how could someone gift them a gimei sword right?) So If I bought it and wanted to sell it after getting bored, I would lose 10k.. Here is another story: In the beginning of 17th century, there was a swordsmith called Yasutsugu working under Hideyasu family..He was an extremely talented and great smith so he was summoned to Edo(Tokyo) by the Tokugawa Shogunate and became the Kaji(in house official smith) of Tokugawa family. He is also one of the first smiths who worked with Nanban(foreign) steel which came to Japan with the famous Dutch ship "De Liefde". One day, Tokugawa himself ordered Yasutsugu to make Gimei blades of famous swordsmiths so he could gift them when he needed to...He made some great copies, hard to differentiate,...He didn't sign them, someone else with better chisel work copied the signatures for him. I'm sure some of his copies were better than the copied smiths. So Gimei doesn't always mean it's a "fake" sword. Collectors don't always yell GIMEI to every sword without papers! We say, it might be Gimei! Sometimes, if the price is decent, we buy swords and don't care about the papers cause we like them so much.

Welcome John...Like Ed said, please share some more pictures. Might be a Yamato blade..

t's really sad to hear you calling people jealous who are trying to help you. No one was jealous with your sword. Why would we? You are right, most of us spent many years studying Japanese swords and invested in very expensive blades. Just like any serious art collector..

These are my own opinions from my own experiences. There are people here who have much more experience than me so you should also wait to hear their thoughts..

What makes you think I'm personally not familiar with the style of this smith? Maybe there is a possibility I studied this smith for a long time? Maybe I actually have owned one of his swords? And some experience with identifying swords after years of studying? If you find a Van Gogh in the attic would you approach it as a fake or real? (in this example Van Gogh is more like Masamune..not Sukekane) To answer your question about the nihonto collector etiquette: Yes, every sword from a famous smith without papers should be handled as gimei! ..And you may want to be %90 sure before sending it to Japan(shinsa) to get it papered..Would you question me if I told you your sword is real and authentic? I didn't say your sword is gimei..I said it might be..There are 20x more gimei Sukekane than the ones from the actual smith himself..Your blade is out of polish so it's hard to authenticate by the blade itself..Hamon looks correct..but mei is suspicous..Check out the last kanji, Saku, on the attached picture..Do you think they are the same? So what are the possibilities: Someone copied his work and it's Gimei. He made the blade himself but was signed by one of his pupils.. He made the blade in an old age, signed himself but due to his age chisel work wasn't as good. (I doubt this)

Why are you aggressive I'm trying to help you..

And Gimei is pretty common in Japanese swords..It's not like a fake rolex made in Bangladesh...it's more like Fake Rolex made by Panerai..or sometimes made by Swatch..

I'm not saying it's Gimei..I said it's possible! And the reason is the way your swords mei was chiseled. It looks a bit amateurish(mei) when I compare it to other papered(officially authenticated) examples...

I'm not sure about this one but yes it's highly possible..Many Japanese swordsmiths copied other "famous" swordsmiths' style and signatures. But even if it's Gimei, still a very nice sword made by a Japanese smith in 19th century..

Hamon is legit but looks a bit Gimei to me..maybe it's the rust I don't know.